Check out the Hydrotec BasSport Pro at www.candomarine.com

[Todd Morgan]

I'm thinking about bringing the XB 2002 with a 175 Pro XS Opti....we did a new 2003 the other day setup like that and got 84 with a standard case.....we didn't push it further. I'll put a Sporty On the XS for safety sake....should see 90 set to fish if we can get enough wheel on it.

Darris found the Yamaha's interesting.....not nearly as interesting as the 250 HO ETEC on my 2+2 tho.

Since the yamaha's have never really been tried on these hulls (XB 21's) I'd think most would find the results interesting. After all.....the mega speed Strokers have been powered by the Hydro Tec Yamaha's.

We tested a small block 200 ETEC on the XB 2002 and got 92......but.....it was a turd on holeshot, we had to use a 3.3L 1.71 gearcase and a 32 OB 4 to get the engine up to max......it still hit the limiter and was a mega turd to drive. I had to put the 3.3L case back on a new boat so I couldn't mod it.

I'm a Merc guy...always have been.....but with the loss of small block power and the advent of the big XB's, we're stepping into the unknown trying to do research of what does and doesn't work....bear with us.....and your ideas are more than welcome.

 

[Darth VMAX]

505 lbs vs 539 pounds... not sure what math you are using but I don't see a 120 lb difference. Your buddies Bullet is the EXCEPTION and not the norm... there seems to be something amiss somewhere, but you are judging their work on this one experience.
We all like different things for different reasons, you call the Hydro-Tec stuff junk. Again you are the exception and not the norm.

Todd...LOL What did darris say about the 250HO?

IMHO, I am glad that with the advent of the Big Block DFI's the playing field has pretty much even'd itself out. All 3 main manufactures produce pretty equivilent motors. This just leads to more R&D to help get a leg up on the competition which benefits US, the consumer.

 

[Todd Morgan]

We've not run it yet......he's really interested in fuel mileage numbers more than topend. We're going to have it at Clifton tho.

We did the 200 smallie at his request.....once again, more for gas mileage and a viable small block engine to keep the 2003/2002 up and going with good power.

Next small block 200 HPDI I trade for is getting the HT works and going on a 2002......

 

[Darth VMAX]

That was what I was trying to get, a 2.6L 200 Vmax HPDI (or Ox66) and run the Phase III on it. However, I ended up with the 200 Carb (it was a very good deal). Even though I love my motor, I kind of wished I would have held out for the HPDI.
Was Darris OK with the performance/fuel numbers with the 200 ETEC? I am sure handeling would have improved with mods to the L/U.

Fuel economy#'s??? You don't want mine LOL

 

[Todd Morgan]

Yeah, he and Nancy were pleased.....it was upwards of 8 mpg......still 5.9 ish at WOT.

It was dissapointing that the motor turned out to not be a viable option in my opinion......holeshot was dismal!

 

[Darth VMAX]

What about the 150HO? How do you think that would run on the XB2002? That is insane fuel economy!

 

[Todd Morgan]

It would do well with the 1.71 250 HO Case........not because it's a good design.....but it's going to be much closer to right with the gear ratio. Lack of r's hurts also...5750....man that comes up in a hury.

 

[whipper]

I would think a Verodo v4 200 would be a good motor to test on an XB. With its 6400 rpm limitter and lighter wieght compared to the Ho and Vmax should be a good combination and look realy cool I think! :wink

 

[Darth VMAX]

Whipper the 200 Verado is an I4 but I understand where you are going. However, at 510 lbs it weighs MORE than the listed weight of a 3.4L 250HO ETEC and a 3.2L 300xs. Way past the max weight Darris has listed for an XB2002. Now I do think it would make a great "Gentlemans" motor for an XB21. I would love to see that combo rigged and tested for curiosity sake.

 

[Lotus 50]

Plus the Verado weight is dry, so you have to add oil. How much oil is in those things? Another 10-20 lb?

 

[landar]

Can someone explain this 370 HP to me? It is my understanding that this is measured at the crank and there is a 15% difference between Crankshaft hp and propshaft hp. Its also my understanding that a 300XS puts out a little over 300 at the prop. So, if the 15% is taken off doesn't that mean 370 is really 315? If so the Yamaha has less than 15hp advantage over a stock Mercury 300XS. I think thats about 2mph?

I don't want to start a fight and I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just wonder if its really all that different? That 15% number was quoted to me on a BBC thread from the guys doing these mods.

 

[ally2dextreme]

Can someone explain this 370 HP to me? It is my understanding that this is measured at the crank and there is a 15% difference between Crankshaft hp and propshaft hp. Its also my understanding that a 300XS puts out a little over 300 at the prop. So, if the 15% is taken off doesn't that mean 370 is really 315? If so the Yamaha has less than 15hp advantage over a stock Mercury 300XS. I think thats about 2mph?

I don't want to start a fight and I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just wonder if its really all that different? That 15% number was quoted to me on a BBC thread from the guys doing these mods.

i think your pretty close.problem ,i heard the reason the x was added to the mercury was to stand for 10,as in 310 hp at the shaft ..the problem with the yamaha is they want turn any rpm so you have to run a huge inefecient prop to keep it off the limiter,that you cant remove then hole shot sucks

 

[Darth VMAX]

From what I was told by a couple of motor builders is propshaft is roughly a 10% drop. So going with that, 370 - 37 = 333 hp at the prop. Thats just HP. Then you have a GOB of TORQUE to factor which Yamhas have always notoriously have abundance of.
Proshaft dyno's are not quite as accurate (ie. inconsistant) as the powerhead reads. Thats why HT uses powerhead measurements. AS far as the HPDI RPM's, I understand that issue is temporary ;-)
The new lightweight flywheel supposedly cures any hole-shot problems as well. I will find out when I get mine if there is a huge difference or not.

The EFI Hydro-Tec motor stomped a new @ZZ in the Simon 335 hp motor in the B&WB shoot-out last year. http://www.bwbmag.com/output.cfm?id=1685053&sectionid=309

Latest from Todd is in this thread:

http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zerothread/377116-so-i-see-its-rigged-370hp-ht-phase-iiixb21-and-for-sale

 

[ally2dextreme]

hhhmmm the way it reads to me is that the merc was sick,a stock 300x would run faster than 103 the whole artical says the merc wasnt right...i do like the $8000 worth of extras! on the yamaha must have been a real tird without that merc stuff added lol

 

[Crazyoz]

hhhmmm the way it reads to me is that the merc was sick,a stock 300x would run faster than 103 the whole artical says the merc wasnt right...i do like the $8000 worth of extras! on the yamaha must have been a real tird without that merc stuff added lol

That is the way I read it too. The Merc 300x wasnt right and no one there to fix it, unlike the yammy who had their mechanics on hand and man it must be hard on yammy boys to have to adapt all that merc stuff to get that thing to run.

 

[john4utvols]

I hope Yamaha does good. Merc needs some good competition. Maybe Yamaha will come out with a light weight 300 hp motor, and make mercury drop there weight. "Just some wishful thinking"

 

[Darth VMAX]

Read again fellows... The Sporty wasnt added for speed, it was to eliminate any lower unit differences and concentrate on powerhead output. I would say I was sick too if I got my *** waxed that bad LOL. The Powerhead was PURE tuning fork...no merc crap there ;-)

Funny how they never could "diagnose" the problem, that must be the first time in B&WB history that has happened... LOL


All BS aside, I agree with John, The competetion is a GOOD thing for ALL. WE will all benefit from it.

 

[Todd Morgan]

5 year Yamaha warranty....2 year Merc warranty. 89 proof Yamaha fuel, 91 proof Merc gas.

Having the Worthy's at Hydro Tec for support on the P3 motors is worth it's weight in gold. Very few mods to be done on the 300 XS and even fewer techs to diagnose intermittent problems with them. I sell all 3 major brands and the surging and other non terminal issues are harder to get fixed on Merc.

The Yamaha mods are basically what us old timers use to do to the 2.4's to wake them up......

 

[TBuck2003]

The Yammi is a great motor,especially HTs version.But there is one MAJOR problem you have way to much torque load on the prop,making it very dangerous to operate.300 plus horsepower at 6150 is a lot different than 300 plus h.p. at 7000 rpm.You are talking about an easy 5 inches of pitch or more to run on the Yammi,compared to the Merc on a good running Hull.I would go get one right now on a bigger boat but the rev limiter issue would have to be rectified.The optimum set up is not with a 34-36 pitch propeller on a 21 ft Allison.The tail lift created and inefficiency of the prop will get you in trouble sooner than later every time.This is in no way knocking the Yammi,Merc needs to have someone on their tail,just speaking from a safety viewpoint.Regarding the article they may have run the s/master to keep things even but dont kid yourself they would not even think about running the Yammi case with 1:75 gears and that short pointy design,with no true low water pick up.Then you be running a higher pitch yet.H-Tech and Yamaha are on the right track for where Performance outboards are headed in the future,and I think its great that there is options for the consumer.Would love to see one with a higher limiter, phase 3, on a 24ft GS or whatever the new boat will be called,now that would be Awesome.

TBuck

 

[Darth VMAX]

No Quesion on what is the OPTIMUM HP lower. Merc has a gem with the SM I don't think that has ever been questioned by any camp.