Hydromotive first run

Jay Martin

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6400 is my cutoff so yes I should run a higher speed than a Merc at the same given rpm simply because the mercs normally run a smaller pitch so that it will turn up the higher rpm's than the 28 unless it's an over hub which we are not talking about.

I'm in the middle of testing and modifying an over hub 4 blade as we speak, last time I ran it I clocked 87 and some change at 6000 rpm, this is a 30 pitch which I have not done the slip calculation yet but it should be very close to 9%. This was at 1 inch below the pad. This particular prop had to much bow lift so I decided not to push my luck and could not trim it all the way out like I like. Since the run I have removed 2 degrees of rake and pulled some of the cup out.
 

catfish123

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Obviously if different pitch props are used, speeds at the same rpm will not be the same. I definitely agree with that. I think you are missing my point or I missed your original point. If everything else is equal, including all things like gear ratios, prop pitches and type, rpm's, etc, etc, etc, where the motor makes it's HP does not impact the speed achieved at a given rpm.:beer:
 

2003225X

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Jay:

I wanted to ask you what kind of GPS Speedo you have that reads in 100ths of a mph. I always wanted one like that.
 

Jay Martin

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Jay:

I wanted to ask you what kind of GPS Speedo you have that reads in 100ths of a mph. I always wanted one like that.
It's an Eagle Cuda 350 with GPS. This is a depth finder. I have checked against other GPS units and it is tick for tack.
 

Jay Martin

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Obviously if different pitch props are used, speeds at the same rpm will not be the same. I definitely agree with that. I think you are missing my point or I missed your original point. If everything else is equal, including all things like gear ratios, prop pitches and type, rpm's, etc, etc, etc, where the motor makes it's HP does not impact the speed achieved at a given rpm.:beer:
I have to agree but thats a fine line and a deep subject. I was talking to a guy just the other day that was telling me his Yamaha ran 92 mph at 6000 rpm.

If your looking for specifics I would call Wayne Worthy at Hydrotec Marine in Nixa, Missouri. They originally built my motor, I'm sure he could shed more light on the subject than I can....:beer:.....
 

xb03

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If everything else is equal, including all things like gear ratios, prop pitches and type, rpm's, etc, etc, etc, where the motor makes it's HP does not impact the speed achieved at a given rpm.
I have to agree, because if different HP effected the speed at a given rpm a prop calculator would not be accurate, just as hull weight isn't calculated in with prop slip.
 

whipper

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Only one way to find out, what prop were they using?
I believe the B&W prop in the test was a 30 pitch hydromotive T4-X. I know Todd ran right around 100 with the same prop on his GS with the 225 Promax. This has always been a prop I want to try!!! Along with a 27 Quad.

I dont think it really matters at all if a motor has more grunt in the low end its not going to be any faster up top if the motor is limitted by rpm. Your only going to be as fast as your rpm dictates. I think the variables with prop to prop is pretty high though. No two props are created equal and that goes for the hull and power plant also.

Ive tryed alot of 26 and 28 props 3 blade and 4. With the 6750 limitter and without. With stock heads and with 33cc heads stock limitter. With oil injection and stock limitter and without stock limmiter oil injection and premix. Im now 7500 rpm limitter 33cc heads premix. The only time see any differance at all from bone stock is with 26 or less pitch props.

Very few 28 pitch props I can get to 7000rpm in a 4 blade. Some 3 blades I can get there with but thay have been far and few. At even to 1/4 above I can get them to 7000 as long as the prop still has good bite that high. Some dont. They just slip. The props with more rake seem to still lift OK even to above.

Its all relitive really. if you run high you can get some speed with bigger wheels due to less drag than the fact the props half in half out. But only if they are designed to be run as surface props. Todds are. But Trophys arnt!! Youll slap the blade off a trophy running them to high to often. They arent designed to be run that high. I would try and run your 26 Trophy 1/4 above. Youll probably find youll loose speed anyway. At 1/4 below they seem to like that and move the hull better in the drink a little more due to there blade design over a Hydromotive that has a little more rake and not as round of tips.

You could get the limmiter raised to what ever ya want up to 7500 but I do a guy who had his to 8000 and it never broke? Ive been running 25 & 26 pitch 3 blades alot the last few of years to 7500 rpm no issues. Im ussually in the 7100-7200 range most of the time on plain unless its rough out.

To run 90ish with a 26 on a stock 225 with 1.87 is very very rare. Im at 7300 when ive touched 90 with a 26 3 blade at 1/4 above or even? I cant pull my 25 Trophy to 90 because I dont run it that high. And frankly I dont ever plan on it.:big grin I get 86 or so with it at 1/4 below and thats all shes got just over 7000 rpm also. Its a piece of crap prop though also. Ive taken a hammer to it more than once trying things with it.:big grin Its a 3 out of 10. But does the trick.

Ive heard of quite a few guys who have done the math and claim zero slip or 3%. So I dont dout it. Ive had a Spinelli that had very LOW slip i dont remember what but way below 7% of the norm. You have a really good setup and really good motor and prop thats all. Fishen firman once said that there was some Promax,s that accually ran threw there limitters in the 96-98 range? Maybe you have one of those? In any case awsome and dont change a thing.
 

catfish123

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Thanks Jared.............I was starting to think I was speaking something other than English...............:LMAO: And not "douting" 0% slip.............oh, just forget it. I'll buy an engraving tool, change the pitch on my props with it, and then I too will be able to join the elite class at 0% slip by placing my "new" pitch number into the formula.
 
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2003225X

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If someone is believing 0% slip they do not understand boating. How hard is it to understand that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat to run at 0% slip?????

This is not a hard concept to understand guys......

If you are coming up with 0-3% slip when you calculate it, you have a prop pitched steeper than what is stamped on the prop.

I guess if I put a 32 pitch Lightning on my 225X/03 combo and ran 0% slip (6850*32*.5347*.0009469= 110.98mph) that wouldn't be doubted either?? Or better yet with a 28 pitch, (6850*28*.5347*.0009469= 97.1mph)... If I told you with a 28 pitch with a stock 6850 rev limiter and 0% slip that I can run 97mph you would believe that???? Come on....
 

catfish123

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Sure, it just takes a really good setup, really good motor, and prop, that's all. Give it up Matthew..........you'll wind up with high BP like me :soap box
 
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Jay Martin

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If you are coming up with 0-3% slip when you calculate it, you have a prop pitched steeper than what is stamped on the prop.


Now heres a guy that understands props, seriously!
Good call 2003225X....:beer:.....

As I stated in a previous post, the 28 TXP O/T 4 came up with 2%, with as much cup as this prop has and they are almost always 1 pitch higher than whats stamped it would be considered a 29.5 pitch and this would be the reason why it turned 300 rpms less than the 28 Hydro I have sooooooo! Lets back up and say this turbo is calculated at a 30.5 pitch, this would now bring the slip up to 7%.
 

xb03

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Are we agreeing to disagree? Just kidding.
If someone is believing 0% slip they do not understand boating. How hard is it to understand that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for a boat to run at 0% slip?????

This is not a hard concept to understand guys......

If you are coming up with 0-3% slip when you calculate it, you have a prop pitched steeper than what is stamped on the prop.
I totally agree its impossible to have 0 slip, but even if we calculate the prop as a 27p it still comes up to 2% slip.
 

TBuck2003

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I will not speak for other props, but as far as the ot goes there are a couple things to remember... The OT is 14.75" in diameter most other ones are smaller. Blade design is MEANT to be surfaced, round ears are not. I do not put a lot of cup in the OT's because the boat does the work on a Allison. Point being it is very possible to have a very low slip number with this prop. Not zero but low. The other thing to keep in mind is how much trim you use to clean the boat up... All things to consider. You will not add another 1 or 2 " of pitch on my props because of cup. You might on others. As far as pitch the Trophy plus and Txp OT you might as well add 1 to 1.5" to what is stamped. Mine are true pitched measured at leading edge, middle, and trailing edge before cup. Add numbers up divide by three there is your pitch. Also Tachs can be off all the time. If a tach is off by 3% that is nothing at idle but at 6700 that is almost 200 rpm's. Happy running, be safe...

TBuck
 

Bobalouie

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I have to agree, because if different HP effected the speed at a given rpm a prop calculator would not be accurate, just as hull weight isn't calculated in with prop slip.
I think prop slip is a misnomer. It actually should be termed "system slip". The difference between theoretical top speed and actual top speed is what we are determining when we come up with a % slip number. But, the difference has more variables than just how much the prop is slipping in the water, one of which is the efficiency of the hull, which in turn as more variables like wetted surface at speed and aerodynamics.

Therfore the actual speed your rig is achieving is a result of all the influences of all the variables, only one of which is prop slip.
 

whipper

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TBuck & Bobalouie ,TOTALLY AGREE.
Theres just to many variables to put faith in prop slip calculators. There meant to be used as a guideline not the holly grail. You can be maxed out in revs but still trim for more speed. The thrust and efficiency will change even with the props rotation staying stagnant at a given rpm with trim. This is more prevalent with Allison's over most other boats as ours respond so greatly exaggerated to trim to say a heavier less efficient hull.
 
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2003225X

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Today, I ran my new to me 26p hydromotive Q4 OT. First off, I was very happy with the way it handled, it drove best at 1/4 above, where as the trophy drove best 1/4 below. Made two passes in the opposite direction, gps @ 87 one way and 92 the other with one passenger.
For all the "proclaimed" prop experts out there... I want the explanation for above stated numbers and how it is possible. With 0% slip it comes out to approximately 88.85mph. So... once again we are saying these boats can run negative slip??????? I guess the answer will be his tach is off 500 rpms or he is running with a 10mph current. You guys need to wake up...

Prop slip is NOT by itself a variable. Prop slip is a result of all the influences of all the variables, therefore, it becomes a measurement of efficiency.

Whipper... with all do respect, I have never seen you disagree with anything posted in here whether it was based on facts or not.
 

fnshrmaster

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For all the "proclaimed" prop experts out there... I want the explanation for above stated numbers and how it is possible. With 0% slip it comes out to approximately 88.85mph. So... once again we are saying these boats can run negative slip??????? I guess the answer will be his tach is off 500 rpms or he is running with a 10mph current. You guys need to wake up...

Prop slip is NOT by itself a variable. Prop slip is a result of all the influences of all the variables, therefore, it becomes a measurement of efficiency.

Whipper... with all do respect, I have never seen you disagree with anything posted in here whether it was based on facts or not.
2003225X Are you saying that the #s produced with the prop mentioned are not possible???
 

Jay Martin

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My last 2 cents worth is this...
No matter what brand your running, if the pitch of that propeller is not true, meaning all blades are exact in pitch, as Todd said "from the leading edge to the trailing edge", You will never get true slip number especially from the Trophy, they are the worst box stock prop I have ever seen, the pitch numbers alone I have seen be off 2 pitch's from blade to blade. If I may I would also like to add this. When I purchased my 28 o/t from Todd the first thing I did was measure all points, It was dead on, all blades matched. True slip numbers only come from true propellers unless your tach is off.
 
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2003225X

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What I am saying is if he has a 26 pitch OT that is a true 26, and if he has a 1.87 gear ratio, and if he is turning 6750 rpms, and if he isn't running with a 10mph current, then it is impossible.
 
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