300xs on a Grand Sport Darris said NO!

[froggy]

I'm only gonna say this once.

Put a 100# kid on one end of a teeter totter and a 200# kid on the other end - what happens? Ans. The 200# kid sinks like a rock. Now move the 200# kid forward until the teeter totter is balanced, get the 200# kid to jump off and what happens? The 100# kid drops like a lead balloon. Now put a 100# kid on each end and you will be in balance. Get one of the kids to jump off and the other will fall like a lead balloon. Under which of the two circumstances did the 100# kid fall the fastest? Answer: the 100# kid fell at the same speed in either situation after all he was still a 100# kid.

If you are in natural balance, you will find the same balance at equilibrium after an upset. If you are not in natural balance (example using a 14" offset), you will never get into natural balance and an upset will be very unpredictable. Kind of like riding a bicycle with a very upright front fork versus riding one with rake and positive camber---which one is more naturally stable?

CG is fixed except for gas usage and livewell condition. Center of lift is continually moving backward the faster you go and forward as you slow down. If you slow down abruptly you have an effective dynamic that moves the "dynamic CG" forward quite a bit then the boat tries to settle into natural balance. If the natural balance point is skewed, unpredictable things happen.

If the boat is normally designed, zero offset is the most stable under all weight conditions. It may not be fastest (because the center of lift may not move back far enough without some help), but it will be the most stable.

froggy

 

[JR]

Adaptation??? allright. Here is the lightweight power for the 20ft Allisons:

This: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcathome/8/home.aspx

PLUS this: http://www.yamaha-rebuild.com/phasekits.htm

= HAULIN BASS!!!!!

No offense but I am not that excited about a carb, 6000 RPM, 416+ pound 150 HP engine, with a 2to1 gearcase.
This seems more like a pontoon boat motor than for an A-boat.

 

[jimmyb]

badbait... i havent spoken up too much, because i technically dont have a dog in this fight anymore. However, I will say that i really liked the 250xs on my xb2003.

for those arguing weight and stuff, full livewell + full tank of gas = LOTS of weight (like 300#). Add in 3 batteries (good for another 180#), an onboard charger (20#) and a big trolling motor on the bow (60-80#), some tackle (100#), a cooler with some beverages (20-1000#) and your bubba fishing partner (300#).

add all of that up and 100# extra or less on the transom doesnt seem like much. And that isnt even taking into effect the extra weight of adding 3 adults to the rear bench seat

darris also says he doesnt like lots of HP on the back of his boats... just read the capacity stickers

 

[Lotus 50]

There is a GS for sale in the Toronto boat trader with a 175 Optimax. $57 Cdn for a demo

175 is enough for me, but that puts me in the minority around here.

http://www.trader.ca/Search/Details.asp?mknm=&Region=-1&subcategory=-1&CAT=6&ADID=6294670&ADS=6294670|

 

[FlatOutAlly]

57K ?!?! I thought the Loonie value was up?

 

[jbf 2002]

Lou,

You are right on. Search the patents that are listed on the hull with the U.S. Patent office, and read the text.

I never understood the the "quarter-pipe" under the rub rail in the wing tip area.....cool stuff.




j.f.

 

[2fast4mom]

Jimmy get that 300# fishing partner of yours back to his CAD/CAM desk at Merc and get busy designing some more 2.5 liter motors that will pass muster!! :laughing

All this EPA horse-crap about outboard emissions (compare the total outboard emissions for the USA with the output of ONE Chinese high-sulfur cargo freighter, uh-huh) has driven the mfr's into building bigger and heavier motors to produce more energy to assist the lowering (dilution) of emissions.

I hope the 2.5's aren't dead. Certainly the recent announcements from Merc have us still on life support for the platform, but I think that Darris is hedging his bets, as you say.

Bill I said early on in this that YES it COULD be done (3 liter on a 2003, yours drives real nice) but the average joe-blow doesn't have your 40 years of experience in dialing in the setup and Darris is worried someone of lesser capabilities is gonna DIE in a barrel roll and then they'll be looking for someone to blame.

 

[RedAllison]

"...Darris is worried someone of lesser capabilities is gonna DIE in a barrel roll and then they'll be looking for someone to blame..."

THAT ladies & gents is IT in a nutshell. We can argue the merits tillda beef stroll home. Likewise none of US are affixin the stickers to hulls in Louisville and more importantly, we AINT the ones the lawyers are gonna be servin papers on when Joe Q. Public's widow sues Allison Boats Inc.

:beating dead horse
RA

 

[mikesufka]

Please tell me that Darris is planning for the 300XS to hang on the back of that 24 footer that I keep hearing about.

Mike Sufka
St. Cloud, MN
Spectre 30/Twin 300 Mercs

PS: Just bought a Grandsport with a 200 ProV Yamaha. Can't wait to have an Allison again.

 

[Yellowallison]

Since I’m the only one defending this setup and since it’s unpopular with the MFG. This is all I’m going to say about it..

Bill... I, you, and others know its HORZZCHIT that 3.0 want run on a 2003/2002!

How do I know this....because I've rigged 2-3 and nobody is dead today from it!

Jimmy B fished a 250XS on his 2003 for 2 yrs and nobody dead or the boat turned over!


I guess all the yrs that everyone watched BUDDY CAMP run up and down the lake from daylight to sundown with his 450# OMC on a 2002 at 100mph was just a fluke!!!!

Do yall think when I called DARRIS and ask him about putting a QUATERSHOT CAPSULE deck on a 2003 he said it was going to work!! HECK NO!!!!!!! He spend 2 hours tellin me all the reason why it wouldn't work! ------ Now that he has seen and watched it run he will quickly tell you that it looks and runs great!

Do yall think DARRIS told Shane Stovall that a QUARTERSHOT capsule deck would work on a XR2001!! HECK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --- Come to PLYMOUTH this weeknd and watch him take home more checkered flags and say it wont work!

Why doesn't everyone listen to DARRIS when he says only run 150-200's on thier boats???

Why hasn't nobody listened to DARRIS when he said on rig the XB21's with a 175/2.5???

If RED had listened to DARRIS..... he be ridin around another ole WHITE hull XB21 !!!!!!!!!!

How man yrs did DARRIS tell everyone that the only sterring for an Allison was cable!

Point is........... I love DARRIS to death for building the best boat on the planet and belive the man is VERY VERY smart and gifted !!

But just because he tell me something wont work!! I dont consider it the all end!!!!!!!!! or I would have not done 1/2 of what I have done with the Allison boat I've owned!


I not really wooried about it all myself because I got a stock pile of 2.5' stuff..!!

But I knwo this... I rather run 40 miles WIDE OPEN down the lake anyday in a 2002/2003 powered by a NEW GAS SIPPIN 300XS with WARRANTY than I would sum ole 98) 225-260-280 thats been ran to death an lookin for a place to leave me paddlin home at bout dark 30 jus because DARRIS said a 3.0 wont work on a 2002/2003..

Also .... lately when I open my garage up..... I have thoughts about selling some of my ALLISON and buying a BRAND NEW 2008 solid yellow COMP 2002 just like LULU's and riggin with a 2008/300XS and having just 1) Allison instead of 3 and a Young!

:relax::relax:

 

[ALLISONMAN]

alright froggy explain to me this now you can add batteries to the wings in each compartment on an allison (center steer) and it balances out. or you can put the batteries in the center compartment and it balances out but the boat with the batteries in the center will be easier to drive and keep balanced but why????? cause the more weight centered and lowered, the easier it is to keep balanced and the less leverage you use to keep it balanced. Now why or would this not equate to the same as fore and aft balance??? Not saying it cant be done because it has but really how safe is it and how much really emergency testing has been done??? bill i wasnt trying to disprove you testing just trying to shed light on some stuff darris has had in mind as far as the heavier motors on these boats. The new 21 pro is designed for the 3 litre motors and they do quite well with them as i think the 2.5 litre motors could work on them but not as good as a 3 litre!!

 

[Darth VMAX]

JR....

With Hydro-Tec you can have it converted to EFI (Ox66) if you like, the limiter bumped up or removed (like mine) Different gear ratio's are available (2.0, 1.86, and even 1.72). You can even have their HPDI's phased out (but not as wildly). They can be made to run REAL good on an A-boat (and still retain their excellent reliability). HT can go all aout and build a 350 hp Yammie Drag motor if you perfer. I would compare thier phased out lake motor performance similar to a 225x, Mine is more like a 200 Pro Max but I haven't had ALL the goodies added either (heads, big bore carb).

A "pontoon" motor thay AIN'T! LOL

Yellar.....DO IT!!!! All Yellow XB2002 Comp but put your 300x on your Young on it instead and hang the new stroker on your Young!!!!


edit: The EFI conversion can't happen without some BIG $$$ (see...not worth it). I was told it was an easy conversion and called Nathan to verify) Sorry, I passed on some bad info.

 

[2fast4mom]

Yo Yo Yellr....last time i checkt...

Uh...JiimyB, Buddy Camp, Badbait Bill, YA & Shane Stovall ain't ezactly:

"John Q. B&WB Public!!"

What ANYONE on this earth says ain't the end all be all i am with ya on that, but when Darris told me of things he witnessed with the 3 liters on light shorter hulls...who am i to say horzzschit? :beating dead horse

All anybody says here is risking only their mouth:argue but the man building the boats has a bit more skin in the game!! You can't blame someone for emphatically declaring their recommendations and wanting the dealers of their product to follow that!!

Capsules and other stuff notwithstanding yeah that turned out COOL! :beer:

Go get that yellar 2002!!!! :cool

 

[Bill Kemp]

i'm with darth go see the fellows at hydrotec they can set you up with a nice yamaha when i need another motor i'm going to get one of there short shaft 3.1 motors. i looked at wanye worthy 20cc bullet this past friday he has a 3.1 short shaft motor on it and has ran 108 with it. and with the light wieght cowl they are making it should wiegh less than 475 pounds.

 

[K.Kiser]

Short shaft Hydrotec..? I'm interested in getting away from Mercury, where can I see some pics or more info... I tried H-tecs site but it didn't offer much...

 

[Bill Kemp]

go to hydrotec web site click on photos then on fabricating short shaft 3.1 that will show photos you can go over onto the fastbass web site and contact wanye or nathan in the yamaha motor fourm also. i was at thier shop on fri and they showed me the light wieght cowl and said it should get the motor down to 475 or less. and it produces well over 300 horsepower and turns less than 6500 rpm

 

[RedAllison]

Nathan and Wayne DO know they chit on dem ricemotors. At the Fastbass Rally this year I was with Kurt Mourer doing 105gps in a 21 Stroker with a HOTROD SS yammie of theirs. I think it was only turnin like 6100 or so (I want to say it was a 34" Bravo but don't hold me to that!). Was definitely a neat experience to have such a quiet motor that wasn't turning a zillion Rs and yet still pumped out megapower!!!

:beer:
RA

 

[K.Kiser]

I like the idea of having an alternative to Mercury for sure, but I wonder if the relatively short powerband would allow for sharp acceleration with the big pitch prop that it would surely need... I wonder how the big Hydro-tec Yamaha stacks up against one of the Wayne Taylor's short shaft 3.0/3.4 liter engine... A buddy here in town has 2 of the big Wayne Taylor pump gas 3.4's, they turn 8,000 rpm + and they are STROOOONG... I'm not sure about the Taylor Machine 3.0 liter weight either, having the lighter of the 2 is important to Me... I'm gonna try to dig some more info about these engines...

 

[SLOmofo]

How about a Taylor 3.0 or a 3.3 OMCease. The torque is just, well ask Wayne.

 

[Darth VMAX]

The OMCs are neat when Wayne gets a hold of them. However, you can't get a new one like you can with a Yamaha. You can go get a brand new 2.6L small-block 150 VMAX and have Wayne and Nathan work their mojo on it and have NEW power that is light enough and definatly powerful enough to turn 100+mph for the XB2002, XB/XS2003 and SS2000. Oh and yes they maintain their reliability.