Great news

[Darth VMAX]

And you all just prove my point. Another nail in the coffin. ... better it die with memories of a bygone era than evolve philosophies

 

[whipper]

Im pretty sure anyone buying a new 2002 is going to want a 100 mph + boat. There going to put 260,280 and 300 drags on them. At the very most on the expence side for those with deeeeep pockets a 200xs.Sure the odd guy will not want all that and settle for a 150-175. But guys drag racing and just go fasters will still want the 2.5 motors on them for a long time yet. If they wanted a fish boat they would buy a xb03 or a xb21. Not a world record carp boat. Motors are in an evelutionary transition right now i think. Sub 450lb 300hp 7000rpm+ motors are right around the corner. Thats my feelings about the 02. if could buy one thats what I would do.
Just a side note.. the reason they may be sold without a fuel tank is because he is expecting just that {racers} to buy them. That way they can put what ever cell in they choose.?

 

[Darth VMAX]

I get that....and again, thats the mind-set that will spell the end of the XB2002. TRUST me, the XB2002 is great for much more than just running 100mph. It really has much more going for it.
Its all about marketing, and marketing to a new generation of boaters.

Not to sound like a dick, but the owners like most here that have owned Allisons with the 2.4L/2.5L HP Merc motors...(especially during the heyday) got to enjoy the fruits of that boat/motor combo's. The speed it brought was like a drug. Most everyone here are so "cracked-out" on this drug that y'all can't see past that next fix. Those folks are fine with re-building and keeping those motors alive and tearing up the drag-strips and waterways. By all means, more power and speed to you, but THIS is not the target market if the boat is to stay alive.

New prospective owners are the ones that need to have the marketing focus on. These are the ones that need to have their eyes opened to how well these boats perform in ALL aspects of performance categories combined. The B&WB article that had John Richied's boat with the 150 EFI was excellent. Too bad there can't be a new article with a 150/175 HO, Proxs or HPDI. These are the combo's need to be on display at boat-shows and on show-room floors to help the future of this boat.

You won't believe how many people are in awe of my boat and the performance it has with a "Bass" motor (and my motor is a GAS HOG), I have no doubts that with a modern DFI 2-stroke it would lead the industry as the most effecient combo available with performance that is better than all comparable boats.

 

[catfish123]

I get what you are saying but to me, and I don't have one, the allure of an Xb2002 is measured for the most part by the speeds it can achieve. When you get away from that, and put a pretty small motor on it, other than better gas mileage, the boat becomes not much more than a fishing platform, and there are LOTS better fishing platforms out there that will also get good mileage with some of the newer motors. I can't see the XB2002 ever surviving in that arena. Good gas mileage is one thing, but you are giving up a LOT of "fishability" vs. what other boats have to offer.

 

[xb03fs]

The Catfish feller sums it up pretty well. Now if he wants to make a 2 seater and a 2+2 topcap for the xb2003 that are more traditional and sell them with a 150 and 175 max HP rating he might be onto something.

 

[Darth VMAX]

I can appreciate that, but what else does it do, what other role can it perform that the "other" boats just can't do? Its a curse word here, but I am not too proud to call my boat a fish-n-ski. And trust me, you will NOT find a fish and ski out there, in this size category that can fish with an XB2002. Think- HP, effecient swiss army knife that can be hauled to your vaction destination with a 3.5 V6 vehicle. Again, like I said, there ARE other attributes to this fine little boat than all out speed.. Its just like a girl with giant hooters....some people never get past that to appreciate her face, butt, legs or *gulp* personality!

There are MANY angles that can be pimped. I am not really trying to convince anyone here, everyone here is not keeping that boat line going through purchases...but it can help by example and promotion.
I realize I am in the minority here. I have been that way my entire existance on the Allison Owners board so I am used to it. BUT, I do think what I am saying is the ONLY way the boat can be saved. Y'all have said it REPEATEDLY...there are NO viable HP options anymore that can compete speed wise with the 2.5L EFI HP series from Merc Racing. Those days in the new boat market are in the past.

So...you have to look at the bass motors (except for the high dollar unicorn 200xs ROS-which nobody will buy anyway). What can the XB2002 do with a 135HO-200 ETEC, 150-175 Vmax HPDI, or 150-175 Proxs. And what can it do vs the 18' class bass-boats and for the fisherman with a family that hates the idea of a traditional fish-n-ski but is also on a budget.

 

[xb03fs]

That's the point Darth. For the same money you can get a 20 foot fish and ski that will fish better and ski better and run almost as fast. Spot them a 250 vs a 150 and the speed advantage diminishes greatly. BTW the xb21's solve this perfectly. Amazing boat. Make a 20 footer with the same configurations less the rod trays (extra witdth) and at 20 feet. Maybe with more sparten options ala XST21. ADD THE STABILITY PODS though... Add great stability

 

[Darth VMAX]

Uh....no you can't.

20+' Fish and skis are pushing 50-60K now. Plus you need a frggin semi to haul their tonnage around. And even with 250's on them most are still a low-mid 60 mph boat. then add the higher dollar troller to move them.
Not even in the same discussion when talking purchase price AND combined overall operating costs. Performance....no way. An XB2002 with a 175 will smoke ANY 250hp standard fish and ski.

Also, how do you figure a 20' standard fish and ski fishes better? Didn;t you come out of a Stratos fish and ski? How many times did you whack that front windshield. How many rods could you strap to the front deck? I have fished from the 290 FS Stratos, the 19FSX Astro, and a 375 Charger.... my XB2002 is FAR more comfortable to fish out of. The ONLY one I would say would fish better is the Charger 475FS and part of that is you can get it with the bassboat plexiglass windshields on each console esentially turning it into a "DC".

Now...I don't think and nver meant to allude that the XB2002 will take over any markets out there. Allison boats in general will never do that and I don;t think any of us want that to happen. We are a small niche and will always be that. Promoting the multi-facited talents and over all performance of the XB2002 (sans blistering top speed with old unavailable motors) can fill a niche for those wanting quality, performance, effeciency and everything that we all love about being Allison owners, just in a smaller size thats easy to get from home to lake.

The 20' Fish and skis you are reffering to are:
Ranger 212 Reata
Triton 210 and 220 Escape
Charger 475FS
Skeeter SL210

they are HUGE expensive. and tugs to haul around.

 

[Bobalouie]

I can appreciate that, but what else does it do, what other role can it perform that the "other" boats just can't do? Its a curse word here, but I am not too proud to call my boat a fish-n-ski. And trust me, you will NOT find a fish and ski out there, in this size category that can fish with an XB2002. Think- HP, effecient swiss army knife that can be hauled to your vaction destination with a 3.5 V6 vehicle. Again, like I said, there ARE other attributes to this fine little boat than all out speed.. Its just like a girl with giant hooters....some people never get past that to appreciate her face, butt, legs or *gulp* personality!

There are MANY angles that can be pimped. I am not really trying to convince anyone here, everyone here is not keeping that boat line going through purchases...but it can help by example and promotion.
I realize I am in the minority here. I have been that way my entire existance on the Allison Owners board so I am used to it. BUT, I do think what I am saying is the ONLY way the boat can be saved. Y'all have said it REPEATEDLY...there are NO viable HP options anymore that can compete speed wise with the 2.5L EFI HP series from Merc Racing. Those days in the new boat market are in the past.

So...you have to look at the bass motors (except for the high dollar unicorn 200xs ROS-which nobody will buy anyway). What can the XB2002 do with a 135HO-200 ETEC, 150-175 Vmax HPDI, or 150-175 Proxs. And what can it do vs the 18' class bass-boats and for the fisherman with a family that hates the idea of a traditional fish-n-ski but is also on a budget.

If I was in the market for a 18' class boat, I wouldnt be spending $41K on it. Most 18'ers you can easily get into for the $31k cost of the XB02 hull. So, I am not sure what the point is here. It would take a lot of gallons burned in fuel cost to offset that $10k.

I completely understand what you are saying, but a savvy buyer is not going to plunk down the greenbacks for an 02 in the future. The hull cost would need to be around 10K less to make this a budget friendly thing.

What would it do with a 175 or smaller motor on it? Thats an easy question to answer: The same as every other bass boat on the lake, just using less power to do it and will drive like a slot car, not a bathtub. But, it will sacrifice fishability to anything else out there.

Dont get me wrong, I love my 02, and I will shed a tear when the buyer comes to pick it up, but there are a couple things I can say having owned one: The hull is a racehorse. You want the best performing, fastest bass boat on the water, its the hull for you. Pack it full of a day's gear and family and that performance goes way down. Its a good fishing hull, but it is nowhere near great.

It is true, its a race boat you can fish out of. But, you take the race boat out of the equation by having to put a 175 or smaller engine on it, and you are taking the biggest part of its heritage away. After that, you are left with an OK fishing boat that doesnt have a lot of room in it for a family outing.

 

[Darth VMAX]

Most 18'ers you can easily get into for the $31k cost of the XB02 hull. So, I am not sure what the point is here.


What would it do with a 175 or smaller motor on it? Thats an easy question to answer: The same as every other bass boat on the lake, just using less power to do it and will drive like a slot car, not a bathtub. But, it will sacrifice fishability to anything else out there.



It is true, its a race boat you can fish out of. But, you take the race boat out of the equation by having to put a 175 or smaller engine on it, and you are taking the biggest part of its heritage away. After that, you are left with an OK fishing boat that doesnt have a lot of room in it for a family outing.

Point being your getting a better quality, more effecient boat with MUCH better performance and the allure of an Allison (again - the niche' I was talking about. Just enough orders to keep the production going and not letting it die). Now, I will say this, I DO think that some tweaks to the XB2002 should be made that would allow it to fish better.


We HAVE to get away from the apples to oranges comparison. The XB2002 is by TODAY's measurements an 18'10" boat. So, thats why I have been trying to compare it to 18 footers. But everyone wants to keep dragging up comparisons with 20'+ boats. So with this, this statement isn't true in regards to performance.


So you are saying that in the "name of Heritage", it would be better off being discontinued? I guess its to each his own on "room for a family outing". Case in point, I have 3 small children. We all fit perfectly fine in our XB2002. I know the day will come that we won't, but for the past 9 years it has.

 

[catfish123]

Bobalouie.............I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head! I have owned an XB2003 now for 15 years, bought it when it was new but I'm not an Allison owner who will tell you it does all things well or that if I was limited on it to 175 HP that it would still appeal to me. Not sure Darth about a lot of what you say or what your point really is. I do not believe there is ANYTHING Darris or Allison can do that will revive the sales of these boats that can't handle anything bigger than a 2.5. Again, there are far too many choices out there that for a family would just clearly make more sense. I can probably squeeze 4-5 small children across the back seat of my boat, but I'd sure rather have a boat in that case where it could be done comfortably. Just because I can "fit" that many people in my boat, doesn't mean I'm going to do it. It would be like me putting 4 people in my BMW M Roadster, I could, but I won't. Even the 21 footers aren't selling much and they are a GREAT boat............but, too many other choices out there. I highly respect Darris, his boats, his Company, etc, but let's face it, sales are at an all time low and it doesn't appear that will change too quickly in the future.

 

[fnshrmaster]

To me that makes the used market strong, 02s and 03s sell fast and hold value if they are in good shape.

 

[Darth VMAX]

if I was limited on it to 175 HP that it would still appeal to me. Not sure Darth about a lot of what you say or what your point really is..[/QUOTE

How many camaro's, mustangs, etc. Are sold with V6's?PLENTY.
And you confirmed my point about being cracked out on the 2.5 HP speed and that is the only window your willing to look through. There are other windows....but none of you will look out of it.

Oh well... I will just keep trying to help my own cause and leave this dead horse to rot and let the buzzards feast.

 

[xb03fs]

I love my 21 and am lucky I found it. I know longer lust after a different boat...my only dilemma now is a 175 proxs or a 250 xs cause the boat stands on it's own the performance is not the biggest selling point, i probably would happy with a little 115 on it so I can live in a local lake community

 

[Darth VMAX]

cause the boat stands on it's own the performance is not the biggest selling point,

EXACTLY how I feel about the XB2002! and has been my point all along

 

[catfish123]

If the boat, an XB2002 stands on it's own and performance is not the biggest selling point, then do tell, when you look out that "window", what do you see as the reason virtually none of them are sold?

"There are other windows....but none of you will look out of it."


Apparently, you see out of a "window" that most potential boat buyers also don't look out of, not just all of us in here.

 

[catfish123]

Nathan, who are you trying to kid?..............You would never be happy with a 115 on that boat.......................NEVER

 

[Darth VMAX]

Jumping jehosephats.... I have already addressed my thoughts on this At least a half dozen times.

Y'all have a good one and keep on keepin on.

 

[2003225X]

People buy xb2002s for one reason... to run fast. If you aren't planning on running fast there are many other boats that would make a better family boat. Allison would sell many more of them if they were a versatile boat.

Same thing with myself... if I didnt enjoy the quickness and speed of an ss2000 I wouldn't own it. That is what they are built to do.

Nathan, I would find it extremely difficult to believe someone that was considering putting carbon fiber lids on a boat to get more speed out of it would be satisfied with a 115 on an Allison.

 

[catfish123]

Maybe you should share all your thoughts with Darris so that his marketing strategy can better mirror your beliefs...............I'm sure if it helps sales, he will surely appreciate it.