Hooking

Have you hooked your Allison or other Hi Performance boat? (You may select multiple)

  • Hooked Allison

    Votes: 34 45.3%
  • Hooked Other Hi Perf Boat

    Votes: 15 20.0%
  • Never Hooked Allison

    Votes: 34 45.3%
  • Never Hooked Other Hi Perf Boat

    Votes: 16 21.3%

  • Total voters
    75

whipper

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More food for thought. At 90 the air is just starting to make it over the back seats in a GS. If you have the power to run past 100 ask anyone with a GS the different feeling they get right around 100. The hull takes on a whole new set unlike any other speed. The aero dynamics of the top and bottom along with the hydrodynamics are working together to cut threw the air and water as one grasshopper. The air speed is clearing the cockpit no longer creating that turbulent and running off the back deck. The motor is now the new source of drag. My guess is if someone put a race hatch with a taller cowl deflector on a GS with a strong 260 it would feel better at 104-106 than it does without. Ziemers 260 is a SS so his cowl is lower at even than a 20 inch that would have more cowl higher up catching air. Todds GS is a 20inch 260 and also runs at that 104 mark along with most guys with a 260. So whats stopping the hull at those speeds? Is it power? Or is it aerodynamics? Probably a little of both. Most say its the larger Frontal area and or beam of the GS over say the 02. BUT there is only 1 inch difference from the SS that can run 110+ with the same setup and 1 inch less in over all length. The cockpit is way smaller in the SS, the cowl is way taller on the hatch on the SS to stream line the air past the cowl, and hull is the same deadrise on the SS but the SS is almost 200 lbs lighter. So yes there is a little more frontal area but there are alot of other things going on also that might be improved on to help the GS CUT threw the air a little better. The higher speeds with the SS with the same power is weight more than anything until you get to the past 100. There the GS need more and more power to go any faster than 103-104 because everything starts to work against it more than the slipstream SS,XR, and 02. Much controversy over the guy buy me who ran 110+ with his 335hp 300PM. but i talked to him quite allot over the phone asking him how, why, why you think is why, ect..haha He said it was the sheer torque of the motor over the 2.5,s that made the GS go past that 104-106 mark so many cant go past. Not saying thats a good idea for anyone to ever go past 104 in a GS. He also said it ran better with more weight than solo. To flighty at those speeds solo. The weight helps to off set the drag created at the cowl throughing the bow around perhaps? At any rate the HOOKING element of all this mumbo jumo is that there are different stages of state these hulls ride at and each one creates its own temperament when coming OFF speed. Knowing your hull and the feeling at each point on the way up will help you on the way down also. Just like we all know in that 60-67 mph range depending on what you weight that feeling of climbing on the pad then lip then take off!! At 230 it starts to happens for mine right at 66 with a half tank. If your weight is 170 it might start to happen at 63 and by 67 you blink and your at 75? But I know when coming down from speed im pretty safe when i reach that speed. For the most part. haha Ive had the bow dig in at 45-50 while still decelerating because my trim was still to high hearing the ratcheting case clicking. But thats an easy fix. You just stab it and trim down a little to get back to normal then let off again. You need to get the prop biting again is all there. know your boat inside and out treat her right and she will look after you. i dont know about you guys but I talk to Allison all the time.:big grin She will let ya know when your being an ***!! :beer: Maybe I shouldn't have told ya that ,ya all might think im crazy.. to late.
 

Lotus 50

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The GS is only 1" wider than the SS, but I think it might have a lot more frontal area. I've only seen one GS in my life, and that was years ago. How vertical are the sides of the GS? The SS bottom and deck both flare out to the widest point. There's hardly any vertical portion of the hull at the wide point.

Maybe the GS guys hook more trying for 100, and its harder.
 

whipper

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There pretty swoopy and flair out quite allot. Hears some shots of the frontal and down the sides. There is a lot of aero work in the design for sure. Just look at those beautiful lines!! Sexy as hell! The cockpit is way smaller in the SS. You sit more centred. The rear fairing helps also at higher speeds.
 
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whipper

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The cockpit of the SS narrows from a more narrow windscreen at the helm as you can see. The wind screens line comes down to just inside the swim step. On the GS the wider windscreen flows straight down to out side the swim step. This greatly increases the air flow in the cockpit of the GS. The bow and bottom shapes are very close. The weight savings is mostly in the cockpit. More seating and bench material,Carpeting and much larger rear sun bathing deck as well as more flooring. The flair at the bows of both are very close but I think the SS starts its flair a few inchs more back on either side. The running profiles are very close. The back seats of the GS act like a parachute. If you put your hand between the seats at 85mph you can feel the air rushing into the bow from the back. i found this out by leaving my smoke pack on the bench more than once only to have them join me at my feet at around 85 mph. haha Interestedly the XR2002 seats are slanted. Like a lounge so the air must just flow out the back well. That and there extreme lightness lowest profile and on and on is why they are the fastest Allisons ever produced along with the race XR of course. i suspect buy taking out the rear bench of the GS and slanting the area over wear the seats went and adding a cowl foil this would greatly improve the top speeds of the GS. Love to try it one day with a 260!! The SS just flows better by design all in all. Its meant to be that way. The GS is the Family version of the SS. {unless you have a smaller family} They both do there job well and the way they are shaped has allot to do with there differences in performance. Hears some examples of what I was saying GS vs SS shapes and cockpit widths.
 
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Jon

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Man, I never have mine pitched up that high like those last two pics. I can also only run 87 though, so it may be I do not have the air to do it :). I look more like the pic in your sig, whip.
 

whipper

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Those are for show mostly in the SS anyway hes not going super fast in that pic. Level is better for high speed. To much {kitting} effect and pressure under the bow for really high speeds trimmed that high. Ziemers looks good though not to sure hes going for it or not in that pick? Those two pics are good ones to show the keel line that's all . The SS is 3 inches shorter in keel length or running surface. It was just to show how close the bottoms are from midship to the bow and the overall difference in depth. The SS has 2.5 inches less free-board. This was all just a little more in-depth explanation why the SS is faster and may be less substitutable to hooking over the GS. Im not sold on the theory that they even really are. i think its more about that there's more Grand sports than SS,s and that the experience level of first time Allison buyers will buy a GS before an SS?? Thats probably more like it but i dont have hard facts on that. its just an observation over the years.

One things clearer for me now after studying the two hulls more though. Im convinced that the extra speed of the SS comes from a more aero top side more than just saying the SS have a faster bottom. The SS does have a faster bottom to small degree .5 to be exact in the deadrise at the stern. 22 vs 22.5. The main differences are top side and 200 lbs. The taper of the cockpit from the windscreen to the bench is a fantastic design and would prove superior in a wind tunnel over the large open cockpit of the GS. All the fastest cars in the world taper like a tear drop narrower to the back. I looked at wind tunnel results all day again the other day trying to figure out how different shapes effect the stream. The Narrower bench will build pressure and force the air up and over the hatch area. Thats a good thing at higher speeds. it would take a higher speed in the GS to get the air removed from the cockpit. Im guess over 106..:LMAO: I think the two hulls would perform closer than anyone suspects adding a race hatch up to the buckets in the GS and a fin to stream line the air to the cowl. Not that anyone should ever even attempt to ever do that and see if it works. That could spell life ending results. {disclaimer} Its pretty clear though the differences with same angle pics back to back like the pics above. As you can clearly tell theres still ice on the lakes around hear and the ski hills are shut down for the winter and I have way to much time on my hands.:banghead It was fun and interesting for me though to look at the two related hulls. It makes looking at the other faster hulls what makes them so fast!! The XR2001 is just a pure NASA rocketship by comparesin!! The XR02,s stream lined and super light shape. and the XB2002 same with the small centre windscreen and narrower profile and hull configurations.

Not going there! Just ask Shook they haul the mail down the pond!

Proper setup,not going for that last 1 mph and coming off like you went up giving your self time to slow down will be safe and most likely hook free. It seems like in most of the comments everyone knows why they hooked. Speed for conditions, rouge waves,mechanical,to much trim,not enough trim, slowing down to fast at a certain point, and improper balance {setup}. Be safe think about what your doing and have fun. She,ll only bite you if shes not happy with what your doing.:beer:
 
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aeneas

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James, I think the SS has a longer running surface than the GS and that is why it is better in the 'rough'.

Running attitude for the SS-2000:

[YOUTUBE]8rP2klPzDPQ[/YOUTUBE]

Also I would like to see TBucks XS-2003 aired out! :gasp
 
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xb03fs

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Enclosing the cockpit on a LCB (tunnel bassboat) and Stroker (bassboat) are mods both worth 2-4 mph, I assume it would be the same on an Allison.
 

whipper

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James, I think the SS has a longer running surface than the GS and that is why it is better in the 'rough'.

Running attitude for the SS-2000:

[YOUTUBE]8rP2klPzDPQ[/YOUTUBE]

Also I would like to see TBucks XS-2003 aired out! :gasp
The centre line for the SS is 18ft 9 inches. The GS is 19ft. The SS has a more recessed motor well. From Stem to stern or Bow to stern the GS is 3 inches longer. The over all length between the two is only 1 inch. 20.2 for the SS and 20.3 for the GS. Not sure about witch is better or not in the rough? Some say SS some say GS. Regardless there very very close as far as bottom running length with the GS having a slightly deeper vee buy only .5 of a degree. That SS running attitude is just like the one i put up, perfection!! you can see yours better.:beer: if only we could all have others take video of us running it would help knowing what ya looked like.:beer: I found those pics of your SS on a Norwegian web site. nice picture quality and NICE SS!!
 

whipper

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Enclosing the cockpit on a LCB (tunnel bassboat) and Stroker (bassboat) are mods both worth 2-4 mph, I assume it would be the same on an Allison.
Ill bet there's something to that also on our boats. I would love to test that. I may call Mike Nass down the road and see what it would cost to have a Carbon fibre one with a race fairing made for the GS for kicks and giggles.
 

racerx

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Hey I am glad my video of the ss made it hear that was with a 260 20inch offshore and a 26 pitch chopper that's all it had...
 

Jon

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Nils and I are running very similar motors. I have a 05 XS and his is an 06ROS XS maybe? We are turning similar RPM's, I'm on a 27" and he is a 28" maybe. We could probably get some better numbers. Lou has the same ROS which Nils has, maybe I can hang it and run the same prop as Nils and we can get a closer comparison.
 

racerx

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That same boat with a stock 2005 drag motor went 115 with the same prop with 2 people and was a handfull the boat was not meant to go that fast in my opinion with a stock hull..
 

michael j giesler

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As far as the better rough water boat hands down my gs will crush my ss in rough water as for top speed of a ss i think anything over 110 is when the ss is out of it's elements mine does some dumb stuff up there
 

whipper

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You Boys need to slow that **** down, somebody's gonna get hurt !!!!!!
Shook
David!!:big grin Hope all is well in NC and ya didn't get to much of our weather down your way..Don't worry most of us wont be hanging an 02 out to 120-130 any time soon like you.:beer: Well not me anyway. Those ponds must be starting to warm up pretty soon. Ours are still 2ft deep! With Ice..at least that means we will have water eventually.
 
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aeneas

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Hey I am glad my video of the ss made it hear that was with a 260 20inch offshore and a 26 pitch chopper that's all it had...
I have seen a few clips of your white SS and I would like my red one to run like yours except perhaps a bit slower. I think the attitude is perfect! :beer:
 

xb03fs

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Ill bet there's something to that also on our boats. I would love to test that. I may call Mike Nass down the road and see what it would cost to have a Carbon fibre one with a race fairing made for the GS for kicks and giggles.
When they don't want it to show up in the video they use plexiglass and the stroker boys are now carpeting them and calling them "deck extenions" you know to improve the fishability.........
 
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