HP rating plates

[fishnfireman]

Around here even the small local tournys don't really care what the Coast Guard sticker says they want to see the max.hp from the boat builder..

Ronnie.

I have been fighting this issue since 1999.. At that time there were very few tournaments that I could not fish. I spent 2 months getting a letter from FLW to make sure I could fish even there smaller tournaments. BASS was the first I knew of 2 adopt the wording that basicly states--if it does not have a max hp rating by the manufacture or the coast guard---it's not legal to fish there events. Two years ago FLW also changed there's to read the same.

Now it may not seem to most that there are that many who fish with the big boys out of an Allison......However both BASS and FLW put on a LOT of smaller circuits. Plus there are becoming more and more independent trails that figure, if it works for the big boys it will work for us ----So they have started following suit.

At present I have the new 21 with a 2000 model 225 pro max...and I am legal to fish all tournaments. However I plan to re-power soon and it will not be with a 225. So I am either going to limit my entrys, or do as JR says, until someone catches me. (Then what) most circuits have a rule that says if you have ever been DQ'd from a tournament don't even bother with entering ours..

It's still sad to me that Darris has built these fine machines to target the main stream tournament fisherman. But continues to limit there sales. By forcing people like jimmy and countless others to choose a different boat. Because of the HP rating, or lack of.

I refuse to believe that Stroker and Bullit are building a better boat than Darris. That is almost what we are led to believe. They are proud to put a much larger or unlimited HP Rating on there boats.

I can see putting a 200-225 rating on the 20 ft Allisons because of what they are capaable of running. But the new 21's are NOT going to run with a Bullit or Stroker. by giving up 50 to 75 HP.

 

[RedAllison]

"...But the new 21's are NOT going to run with a Bullit or Stroker. by giving up 50 to 75 HP..."

DAMN man give your boat some credit! :cuss A 21 Bullet witha 250XS in full 2 man tournament trim with full tanks and livewell will be HARD PRESSED to run 85gps!!! I'm getting my HEAVILY LOADED 21 2+2 into the mid 80s already and the motor only has 17 hours and I've yet to touch the gearcase and the prop has only been tweaked once. (Running it tomorrow as a matter of fact, will have tests posted tomorrow night.) Last week I ran 83.3 in the rain with a stock 26" Trophy and 2 240#ers in a FULLY loaded boat.

Greg and Dave (aspb and Nasty on here) are Strokers gurus and they've said the Strokers running 250XS also do well to run in the upper 80s-90ish when EVERYTHING is poured into them. Empty the big Strokers HAUL MAJOR AZZ, but the weight really starts putting the brakes on 'em come fishin time.

Either of the boats aren't 5mph faster witha 300XS, usually 3-4mph. If that's what it takes to pass our 225 21s, then I'll hold my head up proudly.:beer: The bottom line is ANY 21 A-boats, Bullets or Strokers running 3.0s at blast-off are gonna be so far ahead of the rest of the pack you'll have NOTHING to worry about but the two others with 250s+ that were talking about.

Again, it's all about liability for Darris. I can vouch for the "rated performance" being fairly well behaved. The last club T I fished lastmonth I did two "full off throttles" at 80+, trimmed, up on the tail and walking purty. Each time the boat just sat down on the keel line, decellerated like it had drag chutes and kept going straight. It wanted to get a lil fishy but nothing dangerous or un-managable. I'm sure if you were going another 8-10+mph faster it would be a MUCH more white-knuckle experience.

I STILL think we gotta remember just what were dealing with here. We've got 1400# 21'+ hulls with 500+ # motors, 400-500#s of men and another 500+#s of various stuff (batteries, fuel, tackle etc...) and we're running all that up on the pad and gearcase at speeds that used to be unheard of just a few years ago before the big motors came out. We AINT talkin about flyin 02s here anymore!!! :surprised

I think Darris used to have a shirt that said, "NEVER under estimate"!!! :twisted evil
RA

ps
"...I refuse to believe that Stroker and Bullit are building a better boat than Darris. That is almost what we are led to believe..." By WHO? Whoever THAT is they need to check into Betty Ford for treatment!!!

 

[fishnfireman]

I did not buy an Allison to get passed by ANY 21' bassboat.
I will have to diasagree with your 3-4 mph faster..There are a lot of Stroker/300's that are well into the mid to upper 90's with a load.with my math thats 10 mph faster--thats a lot--unless they are pooh-poo-ing us...and many who claim to be well over 100 empty. I have only heard of (1)--21' prosport running over 100 and no bassports.

You might can hole-shot some on your lake------MY lake it's the norm to run 15-25 miles...so you do the math, at 10 mph faster. (He IS gona catch ya).


With that said ----- PLEASE let me LEGALY run a 300 so I can see who is pooh-poo-ing.

 

[fishnfireman]

"...

Again, it's all about liability for Darris.

ps
"...I refuse to believe that Stroker and Bullit are building a better boat than Darris. That is almost what we are led to believe..." By WHO? Whoever THAT is they need to check into Betty Ford for treatment!!!

OK--we are ((( only talking 21 ftrs here))) SOOOOOO---

Why is it a liability issue with Darris but not with Bullett or Stroker ???

To this point no one has been able to convince me why a Stroker/300 that has been proven, by many, to run over 100 and up to what, 109+...or a Bullitt/300 or a 280 can run triple digits Why are they less of a liabilty than a 21ft Allison. And those guys will PROUDLY put a 300 or UNLIMITED HP rating sticker on there boats.

That right there could sway some to think this boat is not able to stand up to a bigger mtr.

We all know that is not the case..but show this to the average person--- and I promise that would be there first thought.

 

[RedAllison]

FFM you mis-understood my statement. The "300XS only being 3-4mph faster" was in reference too comparing it against the same boats with 250XS' on them.

I KNOW a Stroker is a fast boat, Kurt M. showed me 105gps in one with a Stage III Mommahaw and I WUZ impressed with it I gotta say. (Empty hull, no troller, big end wheel.)

We've argued the, "Why don't Darris do this or that" scenario til the cows come home so I'm not going there anymore. Kinda like teaching a pig to speak English, you're only wasting your time and annoying the pig!

As for "average Joe Schmoe" thinking any boat is better than anyother... we're talking about $60K+ rigs here. I'd say that automatically takes "ol Joe" out of the equation. If someone is spending the money for a 21' 225-300hp custom bassboat I'm gonna give them more credit than assuming something about one boat based on statements here, there and anywhere else. If they already know about Bullets and Strokers I'll lay ya 10-1 they KNOW about Allison as well.

:wink
RA

ps
Ask Larry Owens about a 101.8mph 300X/21 2+2. They ARE out there, how bigga boy are ya?

 

[fishnfireman]

Way to go Larry...

Glad to hear someone has broke 100 mph with the dual console !!!!!!!
How about a bassport , anyone broke a 100 yet ?

 

[fishnfireman]

We've argued the, "Why don't Darris do this or that" scenario til the cows come home so I'm not going there anymore. Kinda like teaching a pig to speak English, you're only wasting your time and annoying the pig!

ps
Ask Larry Owens about a 101.8mph 300X/21 2+2. They ARE out there, how bigga boy are ya?

Then feel free to keep those 2 pennies in your pocket.
This is something I feel very strongly about. ---So until someone can give me a bonafide reason as to why Stroker and Bullitt can get by with the "liability issue" on there boats that are running as fast or faster than the 21ft Allison....But we can't.....Then I'm gona ride that pig till it's got saddle sores!!! I don't care what the reason is...I'm just not buying that liability is the ONLY reason, when Bullitt and Stroker can get by with it. Give ma a good reason that holds water and I'll be happy !!

After all who says Darris can't be swayed----------My 21ftr still has a sticker on the port side cockpit, that says any mtr over 200 HP or 500 pounds could void the warranty !!!

AND it has hydraulic steering (PUT ON AT THE FACTORY)...
So I"m gona keep trying..

OH YA----Not that big -but wireeeey

 

[fishnfireman]

As for "average Joe Schmoe" thinking any boat is better than anyother... we're talking about $60K+ rigs here. I'd say that automatically takes "ol Joe" out of the equation. If someone is spending the money for a 21' 225-300hp custom bassboat I'm gonna give them more credit than assuming something about one boat based on statements here, there and anywhere else. If they already know about Bullets and Strokers I'll lay ya 10-1 they KNOW about Allison as well.

I dare say if you posted this on the Bullett or Stroker web page.

They MIGHT not say there boats are better.. But there sure going to ask-- what's up with this...My Stroker/300 is pushing 110 and there 21ftr with 300 is at 101.8
So what is different about my boat that it's rated for 300 HP-- but the ol king of speed is only rated for 225. HMMMMMM!

 

[fishnfireman]

One more thing while I got this soap box mounted....concerning liability and changes !

5 years ago, the old "not rated by coast guard" stickers could get you by for most tournaments..
However the tournament promoters are also concerned with liabilty issues. That is why you are seeing a growing number , especialy the bigger trails. CHANGING the HP rules to make sure there is no room for miss-interpretation. It clearly states that every boat must have a max. Hp rating either by the manufature or the coast guard.

Within another 5 years I will predict that 9 out of 10 tournaments will have adopted this rule !
Which will make all those 20 ft "not rated" boats ineligable to enter----If someone presses the issue.

 

[GotMyAlly]

The fastest stroker, to my knowledge, is the one-off. It ran 107 with a 300X. But that is a one-off boat, built light, with a pad that you won't find under any other stroker. 2nd place I guess would be the black one with the hydro-merc on it. What'd it run? 105 with 2, 106.??? light? Production hull, but I believe that motor is more like 355HP from what I heard. Those numbers are without a TM or fishin' rod in the boat. Probably no TM batteries either.

Don't believe all the speed numbers you see on the web.

The 20' bullets run out good but there is a HUGE difference between the speeds they get with 20s and 21s. 21s don't pull NEAR the big numbers like a 20 will. They are two very different animals.

Have you pulled up beside any bullets or strokers?

 

[jimmyb]

here's some recent threads on bullets (the 21')
http://www.fastbass.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55947

and, RA, i have been in my xb2003 during hard shutdowns from mid 80's and it behaved just fine. and i wasnt even supposed to be running a 250xs on it...

my bullet has done scarier things than my allisons ever did when it comes handling and stuff

 

[RedAllison]

lol Jimmy some of us AREN'T allowed to log in and see anything on FastBass so not everyone will see what you posted the link to. :twisted evil

As for the mid 80s "kill switch pulls" in an XB03, I don't doubt it. They are VERY stable and easy boats to "quickly walk down" from anything much below about 85-87ish. It's after that, and ESPECIALLY over 90 (again, while running HEAVY) when a throttle chop gets interesting. And I agree, sometimes they wouldn't do anything but just sitdown and keep going straight. Other times, depending on load and water conditions they would have you leavin a crease in the seats when you got up! :cuss

:beer:
RA

 

[Darth VMAX]

GMA,

Last week Kurt done got 109 out of his one-of-a-kind Stroker/300x with some newly designed BRIGHT YELLOW lower-unit. The 107 "wall" was busted. I do think for now Stroker is the king of speed for 21 ft single engine bassers. That is until someone puts in as much time and $$$ testing set-ups with the XB21, but even then...I am not sure :-(
I'm not even sure if a XB2003 (stock blue-printed hull with -no pad mods) could run with the Stroker when it comes to all out top speed, perhaps a regular production Stroker but not that blue and yellow kevlar one.

 

[froggy]

Paul Nichols ran a 21'10" Bullet 111 mph last year. He did this with minimal setup so he had some left.

froggy

 

[Fishforcash]

Paul Nichols ran a 21'10" Bullet 111 mph last year. He did this with minimal setup so he had some left.

froggy

Froggy thats not a fair comparison. Paul did it in a 21Vee Super Comp hull that has NEVER be duplicated again. I guess you should know that since you are now the owner of it.:cool

 

[mtolley]

i dont suppose that anyone has rigged a "new" 21' Allison with a 300hp anything as of yet? i would think given the same $$$ for setup time, etc that it could run with the Stroker. i guess will have to wait and see. mike t

 

[fishnfireman]

Mike there are several out there.

But so far they have not seen much over the century mark!

I don't care about going that fast.
I just want be able to legaly run the big HP in a tournament.
I will settle for mid 90's with a TRUE tournament load !

 

[mtolley]

on my xb2002 the decal says boats over 20' in length are not rated by the u.s. coast guard. but does have a manufatures recomended horsepower range from 90 -150hp. so i guess that means im toast in a "real" bass tournament even though im running a 200hp motor? probably one of the reasons i dont fish em to start with. i honestly dont think darris much cares about getting his boats into much proffesional fishing, or he would rate them higher, it aint like the boat cant support the added power. mike t

 

[Ronnie]

mtolley,whats the sticker say in your xtb-21?

 

[fishnfireman]

i honestly dont think darris much cares about getting his boats into much proffesional fishing, or he would rate them higher, it aint like the boat cant support the added power. mike t

I have to disagree with the first part of your statement concerning the new 21 Bassport pro.
A lot of folks myself included believe that Darris bulit that boat just for the main stream tournament fisherman..
But has yet to admit it takes a lot more HP to run them near the speeds he can get out of his test boats. Simply because of the added wt's and or elevation that we have to deal with to be competative on a big circuit.