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whipper

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wow

Very well said Pinkie. I think all 2fastf4mom is getting at is on the Allison site it says there has never been a transom failure and that after these scenarios because the transom was damaged was a little gray. I gather because it was the bolts and such not the actual port to starboard transom build failing this was not classified as a transom failure but more the internal rigging on the transom which in turn damaged the transom. Kinda like ya got a flat tire and the rims got recked. Not the rims fault. I thought the same thing till I understood it better. James
 

jbf 2002

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john,


just so you know the yellow bass racer scott gilmore bought was my boat, randy only brokered the deal.

scott has never mentioned any issues to me...........i asked him if the boat was as represented and his reply was yes.

quit stirin' the pot.

j.f.
 
B

BP

Guest
jbf 2002 said:
john,


just so you know the yellow bass racer scott gilmore bought was my boat, randy only brokered the deal.

scott has never mentioned any issues to me...........i asked him if the boat was as represented and his reply was yes.

quit stirin' the pot.

j.f.
I spoke directly with Randy and Scott in regards to this boat when it was for sale last year.
They BOTH mentioned cracks in the gel and transom area.. Scott didn't seem to want to talk much about the boat and instead suggested I call Randy as he was the former owner, and could tell me "anything you want to know about it"
Per my conversation w/Randy, he confirmed he was the former owner and had installed bracing in the transom area because of flex and cracks in the gel.
So Randy never owned the boat and the boat on his Allison Owners profile page is actually yours?
Either Scott and Randy were lying then or you are lying now.

As usual, anything related to GPI has a black cloud of doubt and misrepresentation surrounding it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest you are also GPI-JBF (with a recent ID change)and an employee/friend of GPI.

As for the main purpose of this thread,I'm confused why you guys just don't call Allison directly and do what you need to do and quit speculating out loud.
WTF Lou you are a moderator and I would think you know better than playing "chicken little" crying "my transom is falling" without getting facts.

PS I dont think John is stiring the pot but articulating what alot of others must be thinking as they follow this thread.
 

jbf 2002

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bp,

yes you are right randy did own the boat for about 4 years i owned the boat for another 2 years before being sold to scott gilmore. i came opon this boat after my blue ally 2002 was sold to barefoot bob.

i don't like you calling me a liar


j.f.
 

2fast4mom

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As for the main purpose of this thread,I'm confused why you guys just don't call Allison directly and do what you need to do and quit speculating out loud.
WTF Lou you are a moderator and I would think you know better than playing "chicken little" crying "my transom is falling" without getting facts.
Bob, your point is well-taken. I did call the factory, at the beginning of this. I was transferred to the parts department to get the "upgrade kit". Very little detail was offered as to the nature and cause of the problem. The rest of this transom thing has taken on "urban legend" status since then, with many claiming to know what the real deal is. I'm not trying to bash Allison over this; in the strictest sense this was an "engine mount failure" and the transom did not come loose. I stand corrected on this.

Yes, I am an administrator on this board and with this comes the weight of responsibility to both moderate and make additions when necessary. Since someone was killed as a result of this problem, and since my own boat has a "suspect" transom, my intent has been to get to the bottom of how this happened, not insinuate anybody at the factory did anything intentional, not to develop a "conspiracy theory", just get to the facts and strip away the speculation.

Bob, as an exotic car technician I have ultimate respect for your mechanical abilities and experience. I will report on the state of my Grandsport transom, with pictures, during the upgrade process.
 

froggy

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Guys,

Lou is right, Pinkie is right and having an Allison board is right. If this post got a few of us to become more diligent re: preventative maintenance and common sense, that's super and worthwhile.

Regarding the Allison boats website---I think we could write quite a bit about possible 'mis-statements'. For instance, the "patented", hole shot plate on the XB 21 could not stand a legal challenge. That type of plate was in service, on a local drag boat, well before Darris patented it. This is called prior art and would invalidate the patent. I even question where Darris got the idea! How about the "cupped" propeller---hard to prove but reallly stretching it. Etc., Etc., Etc.

Now in defense of Allison. The Allison boats are laid up with the highest quality (very costly to Allison) components, currently available, and have been since 1985. Absolutely state of the art. I do not know one bassboat company that's even close, and very few offshore race boat folks are close except for their 'limited edition', megabucks models. Sure, the transom problem is a real surprise. I, for one, had never heard a peep about this. Since finding out, I had to know if there are differences in the construction. Boy it's hard to 'wheedle' this info out of the factory, but what I know, so far, is this:

1. The bassboats have always had their stainless steel, transom, reinforcing grid manufactured, largely, from stainless angle iron (this implies 1/4" thickness). The "pipe nipples", that the transom bolts pass through, are inserted in a hole drilled in the angle iron and fully welded, around the perimeter. Fellas, this is really strong! I, personally, observed transom #1 or #2 being laid and was so impressed it's impossible to describe (this transom design was intended for the Mississippi river racers that would run from New Orleans to St. Louis. They were on the clock so they'd carry 400-500 gallons of fuel and run huge setbacks---3' to 6'---with V8 JohnRudes hung on the back). WE ARE NOT GOING TO BREAK THIS BASSBOAT TRANSOM UNLESS WE ARE REALLY NEGLIGENT.

2. The Gransport transom. It's logical to assume that the grandsport used the same reinforcement as the bassboat. From what I've gathered there may have been some early experimentation, such as using bent sheet metal in place of the angle iron. This would mean that the welds would be smaller/thinner, etc. and the spacers could, theoretically, work harden and separate, if NEGLECTED via loose transom bolts. Most of us are aware enough of handling differences to pick up on loose transom bolts, but some may not be. Keep the bolts checked! If you have an early Grandsport keep checking the bolts and when you have the chance install both upper and lower transom tuffners inside the boat---problem solved. The newer, aluminum reinforcement, is so thick that there is no concern on the newer boats. I do not know when this change occured.

That's all I know, so far. I hope it's accurate.

The factory should be able to provide a simple, technical, verification, if we pushed.

PS. At the 50th rally, I saw the Yellow bass racer, up close, and personally evidenced an attempt to strengthen the transom via some high strength cable run from the transom, thru what would normally be the livewell and terminating in the stringers. I could not believe what I saw because I'd seen how an XB 2002 transom was laid and knew it was darn near impossible to have a flexible transom, unless is was one of the 1986+ to 1988 wood ones. Caveat Emptor on this one.

froggy[/i]
 
S

Scott Gilmore

Guest
froggy said:
Guys,


2. The Gransport transom. It's logical to assume that the grandsport used the same reinforcement as the bassboat. From what I've gathered there may have been some early experimentation, such as using bent sheet metal in place of the angle iron. This would mean that the welds would be smaller/thinner, etc. and the spacers could, theoretically, work harden and separate, if NEGLECTED via loose transom bolts. Most of us are aware enough of handling differences to pick up on loose transom bolts, but some may not be. Keep the bolts checked! If you have an early Grandsport keep checking the bolts and when you have the chance install both upper and lower transom tuffners inside the boat---problem solved. The newer, aluminum reinforcement, is so thick that there is no concern on the newer boats. I do not know when this change occured.

Froggy, don't you DARE sit there & tell me my motor tore off the back of my Grand Sport because of my neglect & failure to tighten my transom bolts !! That's exactly what Allison (Jim Barnes) tried telling me BEFORE he saw my boat, at first they didn't even want to look @ the boat & told me to turn it in to my insurance company. How's that for customer service ?? Barnes & Allison were wrong on the neglect point (they admitted it)& so are you !! Once again how this thread EVER turned into a let's slam GPI is totally beyond me ?? Scott :?
 

froggy

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Gilmore,

You were not singled out for lack of preventative maintenance, dude! As I said, there were some steel reinforcement grids that were a 'new type'. Apparently, that type was not functional---unfortunately, you got one of em.

In retrospect, had you had transom tuffners, inside your hull, your problem might have never occurred. Who'd a thunk it? I would have never thought about the tuffners since I witnessed a GOOD transom being built. What I've learned here is to never ASSUME anything, I assumed Allison made em all like I saw.

By the way, Gilmore, do you still drive an Allison? If so why?

froggy
 
S

Scott Gilmore

Guest
froggy said:
Gilmore,

You were not singled out for lack of preventative maintenance, dude! As I said, there were some steel reinforcement grids that were a 'new type'. Apparently, that type was not functional---unfortunately, you got one of em.

In retrospect, had you had transom tuffners, inside your hull, your problem might have never occurred. Who'd a thunk it? I would have never thought about the tuffners since I witnessed a GOOD transom being built. What I've learned here is to never ASSUME anything, I assumed Allison made em all like I saw.

By the way, Gilmore, do you still drive an Allison? If so why?

froggy
I'm on my 5th Allison in 9 years I love the boats & have been very happy with their product for the most part. When Allison needed to step up & help a customer on an almost new boat they did everything in their power to blow me off for 2 months. Since my 10 month old Grand Sport was the first boat to ever have this problem how would I have known about "transom tuffners" ? I thought the boat was built like a rock turns out (whatever people want to blame this failure on) it wasn't. I'll tell you what it WAS though.........sitting in the lake with the motor 1/2 torn off sinking !! I'm still amazed people are still having this problem. Maybe if it were your boat sinking in the lake you'd feel differently about this subject. Scott :? :oops:
 

XSive

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darin said:
I have talked to Darris about everything. I guess we beleive the boat has seen hard times in its past. That's part of buying used equipment that gets you sometimes. Darris actually fixed my hull and was as helpful as he could be. The thing that bothers me most is that it could happen again. I guess with any boat. The only reason I'm bringing up the past is because I never have and I want all of you to be safe and aware of what your hull is doing or can do. My Allison was actually one of my favorite past times. I miss it.
I don't think this is a common problem. From what has been said in this post it looks like there have been two boats affected that we are aware of. It appears by Darins own comments that his boat may have seen some hard or abnormal use. Allison has provided an upgrade (plates and bolts) to an already great product.

Remember many of the boats have changed hands several times in their life an it can be virtually impossible to track down the current owner. No different than with any recall on an auto.

Scott, while it may have taken longer than you would have liked, it appears than Allison resolved your problem. It isn't like they deceived you in any way. Like paying for a certain type of piston in your motor and getting something else. Or buying a 280 and getting a 260. Instead of going on and on with tidbits as to how you suffered so badly,why don't you post your first hand experience IN DETAIL? Because I don't see why you would still be PO'd after 9 years.

Sometimes the solutions take time and it appears they honored the warranty. I don't see why the need to discredit them. You've obliviously purchased their product several times over since your ordeal. maybe after reviewing the problem they really don't think it is wide spread and offer the upgrade kit as a piece of mind for those who think it is. I don't know.

The sky isn't falling. Instead posting "what ifs" and "oh my gods" if you have a concern call your dealer or the factory find out the facts and get 'er done. Maybe the next post on this subject can be from someone who has the details and will share factual information on what was happening, how many boats this has happened to, and how the recall corrects it.
 
S

Scott Gilmore

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XSive said:
darin said:
I have talked to Darris about everything. I guess we beleive the boat has seen hard times in its past. That's part of buying used equipment that gets you sometimes. Darris actually fixed my hull and was as helpful as he could be. The thing that bothers me most is that it could happen again. I guess with any boat. The only reason I'm bringing up the past is because I never have and I want all of you to be safe and aware of what your hull is doing or can do. My Allison was actually one of my favorite past times. I miss it.
I don't think this is a common problem. From what has been said in this post it looks like there have been two boats affected that we are aware of. It appears by Darins own comments that his boat may have seen some hard or abnormal use. Allison has provided an upgrade (plates and bolts) to an already great product.

Remember many of the boats have changed hands several times in their life an it can be virtually impossible to track down the current owner. No different than with any recall on an auto.

Scott, while it may have taken longer than you would have liked, it appears than Allison resolved your problem. It isn't like they deceived you in any way. Like paying for a certain type of piston in your motor and getting something else. Or buying a 280 and getting a 260. Instead of going on and on with tidbits as to how you suffered so badly,why don't you post your first hand experience IN DETAIL? Because I don't see why you would still be PO'd after 9 years.

Sometimes the solutions take time and it appears they honored the warranty. I don't see why the need to discredit them. You've obliviously purchased their product several times over since your ordeal. maybe after reviewing the problem they really don't think it is wide spread and offer the upgrade kit as a piece of mind for those who think it is. I don't know.

The sky isn't falling. Instead posting "what ifs" and "oh my gods" if you have a concern call your dealer or the factory find out the facts and get 'er done. Maybe the next post on this subject can be from someone who has the details and will share factual information on what was happening, how many boats this has happened to, and how the recall corrects it.
OK I'm done, it happened to me and to another XS2003 that I saw @ Baker Marine over a year later when I was picking up another motor from them. Obviously it's still happening, hopefully you & whoever else that wants to blow this off as the "the sky is falling, what if & oh my god " theory dosen't get someone else injured. Come to think of it I'm not done this is BULL$HIT !!! Scott :(
 

Dark Allison

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Prior to my Allison I owned a 1994 361 Ranger{3 owner} One sunday afternoon I took my daughter for a boat ride before taking her back to her mom's house.We had a great time.After i dropped her off I went back to the river for some testing and tuning. After several 70mph passes on a very narrow body of water my steering failed. Luckly I was only going about 30mph due to a large boat going up the river.When it failed I did a bat turn and ran it up on the bank. :shock: Aftering talking to a guy in GA, I found out Teleflex had a recall on the helms installed in the 91-95 Rangers.{all the dealers should have known about it including the Ranger dealer I bought the Boat from.{Greene's Marine} Several people had been injured and killed. I was not made aware of this recall by Ranger Teleflex or any dealer. Heck Teleflex wouldn't even talk to me till I left a message no one was hurt! This wasn't published in any magazine that I could find. No I didn't blame Ranger it was a vendor problem. Teleflex glady replaced my helm with a up grade it. So they stepped up to the plate as any company should do.
I work at Toyota and build Camry's for a living. 7 of the 9 J.D. Powers issues we had last model were vendor related defects. Allison like any other company strives to produce the best quality product at the best price. I'm sorry about the death of the person as a result of the accident. But from what I've read it sounds like the stud plate failed and it was a vendor issue. I'm sure Allison visually inspected each transom plate prior to installation. This was just a unforseen and unfortunate event.
 

Yellowallison

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damnn guys this is better that me and yeller stirring the pot!!!!
YEP!!!!!!!!!!!! I just sittin back POLISHIN my SPOON enjoyin a lil



By the way AMAN what the name of this movie-- BROKE BACK BOLTS with GotaTight Hole- LULU and Rachetwrench - JR!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 

RedAllison

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Hey Scotty V, you need to get us somemore popcorn. Scottie G dun toleya it wudnt over yet!!! Wuz dem transom grids powdercoated before they were laminated over??? :lol:

8)
RA

ps
I'm more worried about the future of us and Iran than I am about the transom of any A-boat... :wink:
 

CDave

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jimmyb said:
for those requiring proof, here it is:
http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/safety/boatstats05.htm

#12


Darin was nice enough to sell me some allison boat decals last fall. In his emails he told me about the accident. I do commend him for having the guts to come on the board and explain his story... i can only imagine how difficult it must be. Hopefully we can all learn from this accident...
Did ya notice out of all the deaths only 3 were wearing PFD's and two of those died from hypothermia.

The title of this thread, Suprise, is an odd title for a thread in which a friend died in your boat with you driving.
 

jbf 2002

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I heard that scott gilmore's boat was fixed at the factory and resold to the public, as was the boat named in this thread...........also done by the same people. hmmmmmmmm.
 
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