titus cut on sportsmaster

[BP]

What most don't know and are missing totally is that Titus did the first sportmaster conversion because I asked him to. I wanted a stromger housing for my STV project and the 200 housings were not lasting very long. At no time was it to be a customer thing.

Lastly, gearcases are kind of like tires for your car. Just because the neighbor runs Pirrelli P7's on his Porsche doesn't meen they are the thing for your Chevy. I have rarely seen two boats of the same make and model handle exactly the some. Why would one gearcase or prop be the "magic bullet".


Randy

By your own admission the case was designed for your STV project and I run an Allison XB2002 (two entirely different hulls, with different characteristics)

Which leads me to this question and borrowing your analogy if I may...Why did you sell me monster mudders for my Porsche 911?

You had already received negative feedback from John R. regarding this case and you sold it to me anyway. At the time of the sale (last year), you also said it would like to run "lower" than my stock sporty and per our phone conversation the other day, you told me I would need to run it "a lot higher" than a normal Allison set-up. Those are two wildly different recomendations and suggest you don't really know.Not a bad thing to "not know", but your denial has cost me about $2000.00
Titus says you do the R&D, did you test this gearcase on anything but your STV?

To put it into perspective, my XB2002 w/280 is slower in all respects than my former XB2003w/260.
I am not happy, and don't want to hear abstract theory thrown around to correct or justify why.

Like Cliff said "someone could get hurt"
I don't mean that as a threat, but rather that running a gearcase at an elevated height can get you hurt in Allison.

 

[RedAllison]

Randy is that other hull in Mnpls (aka the "turd") ever been wrecked or modded on by anyone other than Darris? I just don't buy the "every hull is its own animal" theory you espouse about Allisons. Sure you get some differences between them when you compare lake/fishin loads and various drivers styles. But if I am understanding your statement correctly, you basically are saying that one can take two 02s fresh out of Louisville and one will run like crap and one will haul ass, regardless. Allison has never been known for inconsistencies between hulls. In fact their quality and straightness have been what has helped them become the gold standard is it not???

ANYONE that tries running a gearcase much above +1.5" on an Allison better bring their towel and an extra change of clothes!!!
RA

 

[John Richied]

Randy in all honesty the part where you knew the CLE/Titus ran like crap on my XB-2002-CP and then sold one to Bob Prell a few months later really does bother me. True you let me run that case as a test, but the feedback I gave you was that I lost 7-mph no matter how high or low I ran the case.
I never did post the results for the fact that you let me try the gearcase for free, but I didn’t think you would sell a CLE/Titus gearcase to an XB-02 owner that pretty much has the exact same setup as I do.
This is WAY out in the open now and I hope that somehow it’s all justified properly. And trust me with my engine back in Minnesota at GPI right now, it concerns me posting this.

 

[Yellowallison]

nevermind!!!!!!!!

Well... Me and AMAN a few others that knew all along --- tried tellin some of yu GUYS to NOT buy all that POWERED COATED CANDY stuff ..

Its a sad deal to keep see'n-hear more-more rotten CANDY stories

What needs to happen is !!!!! for people to quit hiding thier stories cause of embarrassment :? :? :? :? :? and go and tell'm - so all will know - heck I write a book myself jus from what I seen and heard!!

 

[FLYING BUTCHER]

LU

I sure don't want to jump in when something is in question but I guess it is time that I ad my experience here to perhaps help another Ally family member from spending money where "maybe" not needed. I had a 200 that had the nosecone coming off. It needed a new cone no matter what so I sent it to Titus. I didn't gain anything from his work and some of the epoxy is coming off with just a little running time on it. This just my experience but don't think I would spend that much more to have him put on a nose cone again. Not getting on anyone here just my experience and maybe I should have posted it before but kept it to myself (my bad) for the other Ally family members.

 

[Chummy]

I know I don't have a Allison with a Titus gearcase, but I have dealt with Titus many different times and all have been positive experiences. From my personal experience if something wasn't right with a case he would make it right.

 

[ziemer]

I lost 7-mph

Did you lose this mph over a stock sporty? Or something different? Was the case you demo'd the same one that was sold?

I went from a stock Sporty to the Titus sporty and didn't lose anything. I dealt directly with Titus and have been completely satisfied. Before I went to the 15" mid, and changed motors, we ran it for the last two races last season. The boat ran basically the same mph in the 1/4 as with the stock sporty however the handling increased dramatically.

As a side note, after I had my case done I did communicate with Randy and he suggested we start with the case lower than normal, which we did. However, with our own testing we found that the boat was faster (and quicker) when it was raised up higher. We started around 1/4" below the pad and by the first race of this season we were about 1/2" above.

 

[BP]

I have a Titus/Sportmaster lower unit. Here are some of the numbersthat I have. Unfortunately, I've changed a bunch of things

By you own admission, I really don't think you know what improved your situation.
Won't speak for John,but I went 3/4 over and it made matters worse.

Was the case you demo'd the same one that was sold?

No one will ever know the truth on that one.

I'm glad you had a good experience and you feel it was money well spent.

 

[GPI Racing]

I can see this post has now turned into a pissing match and nobody understands what I was trying to say. So be it and let all the "experts" deal with this one. They have sooooo much experience and are full of data that works everytime on every boat, no exceptions. I offered to help Bob with whatever he wanted and talked to him on the phone about such. Now I'm getting chastised for going out of my way to help out someone with a problem. What a waste of time.

The thread has taken the turn that the converted sportmaster doesn't work on the XB2002. I have driven an Xb2002 over 115 with one on it so I guess that boat is "different".

Randy

 

[BP]

I can see this post has now turned into a pissing match and nobody understands what I was trying to say. So be it and let all the "experts" deal with this one. They have sooooo much experience and are full of data that works everytime on every boat, no exceptions.

You have been asked some direct questions by myself and others in this thread and have not addressed them, but instead
responded with this all too familiar "nobody understands" like we are all ignorant sheep. Your non- response only adds to controversy and doubt.
If you are going to make claims, don't you think people are going to question them?
A professional, ethical business person should be able to "back the smack"

I offered to help Bob with whatever he wanted and talked to him on the phone about such. Now I'm getting chastised for going out of my way to help out someone with a problem. What a waste of time.

After trying to sell me a prop, your offer of help was to have Scott Gilmore (who has a modified Sportmaster!!) and I switch gearcases.
I too feel I have wasted time, by trying to get this lower unit that was designed with a different use/application to run on my hull.

The thread has taken the turn that the converted sportmaster doesn't work on the XB2002. I have driven an Xb2002 over 115 with one on it so I guess that boat is "different".

Randy

I know one thing, you can't do it with mine :lol:
Or is the modified Sportmaster that much different than the modified CLE?


At this point, I'd like proof that such a boat exists and not just your "say so" referring to another anonymous Allison owner.Whats his name? He should be proud of his well set-up boat and not afraid to come on here and sing it's praises. If not, then what are the specifics of the boat, HP,setback,gearcase height, pad work etc.??

Randy, you are not just John Q Allison owner on here "talking smack", but a business and "for profit" enterprise (GPI).
As such, that holds you and your claims subject too a much higher degree of examination.
Not answering questions and getting defensive, sure doesn't do you any favors.

 

[GPI Racing]

Bob,

The test of Scott's case would have verified the result. At that point we would have decided what was best based on your tests back to back. If getting you a sportmaster was the answer so be it but I was willing to go that mile. In fact, I was going to pick up a new sportmaster Monday (Tom Johnson has one for me in Lino Lakes) and send it to you. At this point why bother. Unless you test back to back on the same day with both styles of case you'll never know.

Randy

 

[FLYING BUTCHER]

LU

BP you really should lighten up just a little bit. Believe me NO one knows how frustrating these mechanical things can be better than me!! BEEN THERE DONE THAT MORE THAN ANYONE SHOULD HAVE. You are attacking the WRONG guy. Randy will take care of you when no one eles could give a damn. He sent me parts (didn't even require payment upfront to try)and spent hours on the phone with me after years of frustration on my part. WORK with him and he will get you running better than ever. My two cents was that I needed a new nose cone anyway. I didn't see a lot of improvement but hard to measure in tenths of a second when racing. As I said I'm not sure I would spend the difference. I talked with Titus also and he is great guy. We are all class "A"s (Allison owners) take a deep breath and work with Randy. He will get you where you should be. My two cents

 

[BP]

BP you really should lighten up just a little bit.

Point taken Bill and I am happy for your positive encounter w/GPI. My experience differs from yours however and I intend to resolve it a manner that hurts me the least ( just as I am sure you would).Randy knows what he is doing, make no mistake.
Having said that...and since this supposed to be a thread about the GPI/Titus gearcase.
Randy,how about answering some of the good solid questions you were asked on this thread?

 

[Chummy]

Re: LU

Randy will take care of you when no one eles could give a damn.

Yep, when you bash someone on the internet you will not get anywhere anyfaster.. it doesn't matter who it is.

P.S. take a notion to call and talk to he directly

 

[BP]

Re: LU

Randy will take care of you when no one eles could give a damn.

Yep, when you bash someone on the internet you will not get anywhere anyfaster.. it doesn't matter who it is.

I see nothing but facts and good questions (still unanswered) on this thread.
The bashing is in your head dude, because you only see one way.

 

[ziemer]

I have a Titus/Sportmaster lower unit. Here are some of the numbersthat I have. Unfortunately, I've changed a bunch of things

This is true. When I wrote this, it was based on all out top end numbers. I never strung the boat out with my old setup and the new case. However, when I first got the case back from Titus it was the only thing that changed and at the time the boat was setup for drag racing so my goal was to get through the 1/4 as fast as possible, and not see how fast I could go with a big prop.

My 6 mph to roughly 96 mph in a 1/4 mile did not vary much with the Titus case. However, as I stated in my last post my handling changed dramatically, and because of that my overall ET picked up.

I would like to see someone take a handful of different cases on the exact same boat (particularly and Allison) and see what the results are. Same prop, same height, same setback, etc.

1. Stock Sportmaster
2. Coned 200 case
3. Coned CLE
4. Titus Sporty
5. Coned XR6
6. Coned Torquemaster

 

[Chummy]

I would like to see this also but you would have to change the height. To do it all in one day would be tough, but could be done with the right group of people

 

[hack02]

Didn't B&WB do a similar test several years ago, with Jaco's help maybe? Jeffro, do you remember anything like that?

 

[XSive]

Yes Hack...

March 2002,

On an XB2003 with a 200XS.

The contestants were: Stock Sporty, Hydromotive on 200case, Bob's on 200case, and J&J on Torquemaster case. The J&J was the "clear winner" in both handling and speed (93.4MPH) The others were Bob's 92.2 MPH, Sporty 91.4MPH, Hydromotive 89.6MPH. There is a note at the end of the article about how had the installers known that the boat would top 90 MPH instead of the 85 they were told they MAY have tweaked the installation to compensate and the results different.

 

[John Richied]

I have run the following gearcases.

Torquemaster w/Bob’s nosecone and Bob’s heavy-duty bearing carrier.
200 w/Bob’s nosecone
Modified Sportmaster (similar to the old style Sanderson modified w/welded on torque tab)
And a Titus/CLE

I ran the Sportmaster and Titus/CLE back to back on my XB-2002-CP
10” setback manual Allison plate
28 Lightning ET
225 ProMax (bolt on mods): 260 flywheel/stator, SVS, 147-lb compression heads, Rapair worked ECU
No trolling motor or trolling battery
Single (very small) battery

With two of us in the boat (about 400lbs) inline seating and the Sportmaster I could put the boat on 98.1 to 98.9 mph Gps.
With Titus/CLE being the only thing switched the fastest my rig would run was 90 to 91 mph no matter where I ran the jackplate.

The 200 gearcase handled very well and it seemed to have less bow lift probably due to the smaller diameter and the skeg being 7/8” shorter. However keeping propshaft seals in it (even 3 of them) and the epoxy from cracking was more work then it was worth.

The Torquemaster also ran very well and the internals held together pretty well until I spun the bearing carrier. Also the epoxy cracking was again more work then it was worth.

The problem with epoxy on a gearcase is in time it will crack, even if you never hit anything… My experience is it’s not IF, it’s when maybe a month, maybe two years?