Waterdigger
Active Member
I believe to many people get hung up on this "weight" thing. Setup, rigging and a small amount of driving = A very good handling A Craft. JMO
Allison SS-2000 - everything about
- Thread starter aeneas
- Start date
Some very interesting posts - among them one bad *ss 14" MAD EFI Yamaha!
If I know myself right there may well be a 280 or Drag on my SS-2000... :embarassed At the time I bought the 200xs I found a new in crate Drag at S&F that I almost went for. But first I want to set it up with the OptiMax. I really like that engine, no fuzz, ordinary fuel and great consumption.
When I collected the SS-2000 I thought it was the smallest 20ft/6m boat I have ever seen - how does it compare to the XR-2002? I know the XR is much lighter but size wise (interior), they are both 20ft boats... Could one say the SS-2000 is the successor of the XR-2002 or is the XR-2001 the true heir? I read somewhere that the Reynold's boat was made into the molds for the XR-2001..?
I borrowed some pics, the first one of the SS-2000 from fastglass1 (and his thread named "A few photos": http://forum.allisonowners.com/showthread.php?t=9251)
This second one of a XR-2002 I got from S&F:
Fantastic boats - just love them!
If I know myself right there may well be a 280 or Drag on my SS-2000... :embarassed At the time I bought the 200xs I found a new in crate Drag at S&F that I almost went for. But first I want to set it up with the OptiMax. I really like that engine, no fuzz, ordinary fuel and great consumption.
When I collected the SS-2000 I thought it was the smallest 20ft/6m boat I have ever seen - how does it compare to the XR-2002? I know the XR is much lighter but size wise (interior), they are both 20ft boats... Could one say the SS-2000 is the successor of the XR-2002 or is the XR-2001 the true heir? I read somewhere that the Reynold's boat was made into the molds for the XR-2001..?
I borrowed some pics, the first one of the SS-2000 from fastglass1 (and his thread named "A few photos": http://forum.allisonowners.com/showthread.php?t=9251)
This second one of a XR-2002 I got from S&F:
Fantastic boats - just love them!
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msethsmile
Funny Guy
A ss w/ a 115 can/should run in the low 80's w/ cone. Another engine would be the merc 115 xs. It is supposed to be a beast. The drawback would be the gear ratio is 2.08 which would suck for mileage. I can say this, big block boats really hate it when a 115 goes by them...
K.Kiser
Well-Known Member
Aeneas, the SS-2000 is quite a bit larger than the XR-01 or the XR-02 in regard to surface area and molded depth... All things being equal the SS-2000 won't keep up with the other two, with the more notable difference being top-end but these are differences that will be mostly noticed by competetive racers... The SS-2000 will take a little more practice to drive well than the other two, but it also rides smoother in chop and is as roomy as the XR-01 by a large margin and in equally roomy to the XR-02... The XR-02 is the easiest to get in and out of, the SS-2000 takes a little effort and repeated trips in and out of a drag is downright irritating to me... If I were to buy a boat sight unseen it would be an SS-2000 because it has no wood in it, a close second would be the drag as it has wood but none structural so speak, and I would not buy an XR-02 without seeing and putting my hands on it... I don't think the SS is a successor to the 02, but maybe a mixture of the 02 and a GrandSport...
RedAllison
Well-Known Member
I probably "splained" that wrong. Certainly the SS is no replacement for the XR02 in the balls out speed department. What I think Darris created it for was for a "smaller" 20ft lake racer when paired with big power that wasn't available in his lineup since he quit offering XR02s. Plus the SS also performs extremely well with sub-150/V6 motors. And I believe he truly wanted to test his design theories and engineering by creating larger, more aerodynamic hulls via the rounder creations like the SS and XB21s.
I'm just guessing here but if a SS was as narrow and shallow a hull as the XR02 I bet it would run awfully close to the same kind of topend numbers. (Main difference probably being pad/drag size underneath) But obviously it is a deeper, wider hull than the very shallow XR02. You can "hunker down" in a SS but in the XR02 you're nearly "hung in the wind" not much less than running a hydro or tunnel like an Eliminator.
:beer:
RA
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K.Kiser
Well-Known Member
Oh, I wasn't adressing your post... Actually I only read Aeneas's post before giving my opinion... The driver of an SS is very wind shielded, and it is very aerodynamic for it's size... Something else that the SS is gifted in that may be zero on the important list to others is it's ability to back up without dipping the rear steps into the water... The SS can actually back up into boat wakes and keep the bilge dry... I love them all and it's like trying to pick a favorite child that shares your last name, but I think the XR-02 is the better all-around boat screaming the lake/ river/ sandbar if it's still solid and has been cared for...
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
I sort of agree with you. However, if someone is looking at spending the high coin for a new Allison and you read those warning statements from Darris, it will for sure stick in your mind. To me it pretty much says in the unlikely event that something structural happens you are on your own (the safety aspect is a given and in no way do I put a incident caused by an overweight motor the responsibility of Allison Boats).
RedAllison
Well-Known Member
I've never known of a transom or severe structural failure in an Allison that was caused specifically by a motor heavier than Darris recommended, especially by only a few pounds like say a 2.5XS vs a 225PM. (20-30-40#s aint his primary concern, it's the 100+#s of todays bigblock DFIs that concern him and even then it's more the handling and safety affect on the hull than any structural weakness he's concerned about!) If Darris can see a true structural defect and everything else is within his recommended parameters then he's GONNA fix it and study it and make sure it can't happen on any of his boats again. What alot of people don't realize is the sheer forces at work on a hull that's running 90-100-110+ over chop and waves. Water is VERY heavy, like 1600#s per cubic yard, that's how much weight your hull moves out of the way when you crash through a roller or decent sized wave at speed! If he warrantys a hull for 130hp it's because he knows the likely hood of speeds being below 80-85mph is pretty good and he can engineer something to withstand those kinds of forces. The hull can strike a wave at 80mph and be fine yet let it strike that same wave at 110mph and a failure is a distinct possibility. (This is why his racehulls have NO stated warranty) You can't expect him to cover every possible situation given the speeds and forces at work here!
:wink
RA
:wink
RA
msethsmile
Funny Guy
If you severely stuff a boat, even at 60-70 mph it will break. Any boat, even an allison (although less likely). Been there, done that. Hard water, hard lesson.
RedAllison
Well-Known Member
STUFFIN a boat can be akin to wrapping them in a vaccum bag and crushing them. Like I said, water weighs over 1600#s per cubic yard, imagine how many cubic yards are crushing down on a stuffed boat!!! :surprised
Ask John Akin, :shock: :big grin
RA
Ask John Akin, :shock: :big grin
RA
On the topic of stuffin'...or at least hard landings!
I have not had the opportunity to see how the SS-2000 is designed and built regarding stringers, knees etc from the transom and on. How does the metal reinforcement/structure look? Anybody got pics?
P.S. Illustrated in the pic above is not the way I intend to use my boat...
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Speed!
When reading here about the XR boats and the SS I understand that there is a difference but when I look at top end numbers in the gallery and on S&F I see some very high numbers for the SS indicating that there might not be such a big difference...
I also read about John Tigers test with a SS-2000/260 bolt on mods @+120mph (a test I would like to read if anybody has it - I will pay off course)*.
What is what? Is the difference in speed between an XR-2002 and an SS-2000 about the same as the difference between an XS-2003 and an SS-2000?
I take it the XR-2001 is the fastest of them all...
* If anybody has SS-2000 tests scanned it would be very interesting to read - I'll pay for the tests. Where I live this material is hard if not impossible to come by...
When reading here about the XR boats and the SS I understand that there is a difference but when I look at top end numbers in the gallery and on S&F I see some very high numbers for the SS indicating that there might not be such a big difference...
I also read about John Tigers test with a SS-2000/260 bolt on mods @+120mph (a test I would like to read if anybody has it - I will pay off course)*.
What is what? Is the difference in speed between an XR-2002 and an SS-2000 about the same as the difference between an XS-2003 and an SS-2000?
I take it the XR-2001 is the fastest of them all...
* If anybody has SS-2000 tests scanned it would be very interesting to read - I'll pay for the tests. Where I live this material is hard if not impossible to come by...
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propmanjay
Active Member
I don't think that anyone has tried to go all out in an XR2001. For me the biggest differance was in the driving. I thought the SSr was easy to drive untill I got the XR. The XR is much quicker and is much easyer to drive. 110 was scary in the SS and it is just another run in the XR.
Lotus 50
Well-Known Member
The good news is that I've got both John Tiger's Trailer Boat test of the SS2000 w/115 Etec and Mr Tiger's Hotboat article about running the SS for top speed. The bad news is that I don't have a scanner at home, and I'm off work due to shoulder surgery.
I should be able to scan something in a couple of weeks.
Is the SS better than the XR in rough water? I've never even seen an XR.
I should be able to scan something in a couple of weeks.
Is the SS better than the XR in rough water? I've never even seen an XR.
Darth VMAX
Well-Known Member
One thing to consider. The XR02 holds the speed record.....with what many consider today as "ancient power".
I am NO expert by any means, but IMO if you were to bolt identical power (say a modern full mod 300 Drag) to an XR2001, XR2002 and SS2000. I would have to think the XR2001 would run the fastest top end (as well as getting there quicker).
my .0002 worth
I am NO expert by any means, but IMO if you were to bolt identical power (say a modern full mod 300 Drag) to an XR2001, XR2002 and SS2000. I would have to think the XR2001 would run the fastest top end (as well as getting there quicker).
my .0002 worth
propmanjay
Active Member
Let me know how it go's. They run fast enough for me with a drag set up.
suicidealli
Well-Known Member
I agree 110 in the ss is a hand full!!!!!!!!!!!
it is a "family mans race boat"
msethsmile
Funny Guy
Aeneas-(honorary fellow Iowan)*
That v-hull record was set in the late 1980's (89?)w/ xr02. IMO the 01 has more frontal area than the 02 (83? beam vs 79), therefore it is slower. Poorer aerodynamics.
My 01 ran 118 w/ two aboard and a buddy's ran 122ish. Neither one is the king of set-up.
A side note, at the time Fountain (offshore) boats were claiming in their ads to be the world's fastest v-hulls. They were runnig 115ish...oops. They have since gotten faster than the 129 mark.
*anybody that lives in a place named after Norway, Iowa is ok with me.
That v-hull record was set in the late 1980's (89?)w/ xr02. IMO the 01 has more frontal area than the 02 (83? beam vs 79), therefore it is slower. Poorer aerodynamics.
My 01 ran 118 w/ two aboard and a buddy's ran 122ish. Neither one is the king of set-up.
A side note, at the time Fountain (offshore) boats were claiming in their ads to be the world's fastest v-hulls. They were runnig 115ish...oops. They have since gotten faster than the 129 mark.
*anybody that lives in a place named after Norway, Iowa is ok with me.
msethsmile
Funny Guy
Sufka--
An ss w/ stock pad/lip above 110 is...interesting.
An ss w/ stock pad/lip above 110 is...interesting.