New allison model

[BigRedAlli]

From what I've been told...It ain't to purdy right now :lol:

 

[cdaallison]

I would be interested to know if this model will be tough enough for off shore and larger boat waves. Is this a competitor to Progressions and Activators or a longer Allison. The reason I ask this is I have been looking for a larger boat (one that handles big waves ) and in my research talking to some Progression owners (one that had a lot of Knowledge about Allisons) said that Allisons are awesome boats in their element (smaller water) but not built tough enough for big water. He liked Allisons and agreed that they are super fast and handled well just built to light for extreme water which he says are what Progressions are built for. I have had my Grandsport for 7 years on a big lake without any damage however I do not go out in big waves like I did in my Velocity. I guess what I am asking is will the larger Grandsport be built a little stronger than the existing models. By the way my Allison has a build quality that is far superior to the Velocity. Mike

 

[whipper]

Mike hears my take on your question weather or not the new GS will be tough enough for offshore. Im just baseing this on previous expereance haveing lived on oceanfront for 23 years before moveing to PG. Any 24ft boat weather its a Allison,Activator,Progression or a Gayliner will be able to handle larger water than a 20 ft boat.Ive had everything from rowboats to comercial fishing boats out when no one should be! I thought that my GS was going to fall apart last summer when I was out in just 7ft seas. I never should have been out that day and it was all I could do to get back to the warf after venturing out 20 miles before it realy kicked up.I speared many waves thought I got a black eye from the force but kept the bow up after that and the speed I had to go was most uncomfortable. The hull was pounding very hard and I thought that for sure there was going to be some hull stress cracks when I got back. To my amazement nothing not even an inch long! I thought about this for a long time woried that I would find something sooner or later but not.Soooo, the GS has very little freeboard for a 20 ft boat the 24 Im sure will have more but how much more remains to be seen.The 20ft hull at very low speed runs with less wetted surface than most boats at lower speeds thats why she pounds the big stuff the waves are smacking her in the middle of the hull. If ya run to slow the bow will pierce the waves so theres no happy medium. The 24 wieghs 3000lbs,motor and driver, twice the wieght and 4ft longer so she should be able to handle a fair bit more chop and the wave span will be more faverable with the longer hull 24 and up seems to be a good starting length for most sea conditions.The ridgidity of the Allisons with there composite layup feels more stressed in big water conditions but realy is stronger than glass over wood.Todd told me that the hull gets on the pad at low 70s as compared to the 20ft at 60.That tells me the longer keel line stays wetted thus better wave crossing careristics. There is no way that an Allison is not as strong a hull as a Progression. The had laid glass and kevlar reinforcing will make her one of the toughest hulls out there bar none im sure. All your fastest raceing hulls offshore are light layup no wood hulls. Ive watched some off superbashes vids on S&F and Progresstions pound chop hard! 24ft boat can handle some good chop but a 26 ft boat can handle bigger chop! Im sure based on the current data we know about 88 with a 225 this new Allison will be a compeditor against any 24ft vee hull out there. My buddy has a 20ft Campion Chase that rides chop better than my GSE but he burns twice the fuel and has twice the freeboard though but most of all she is just about twice as SLOW. Im doing 80 before he is doing 30.:mrgreen: I cant wait to see her and find out what shell do with a 250 out back. So sorry about the long post,Thats my 2 cent on this Mike. James

 

[K.Kiser]

I'll be interested in hearing what these Progression owners will have to say in a few years... I've been around all types of inland boats My whole life, especially Allisons... I have seen raced, wrecked (on water and road), had the unrelenting hell beatin' out of them and HAVE YET TO SEE ONE not hold up way better than it should under whatever given circumstances and all but just a few minor exceptions were gel coat crack free... The worst damage that I have seen was one that got barrel rolled a few times at 100 mph, and this was a 540 lbs. drag hull.. It had some transom damage, but I saw the crash and the damage was waaayyy less than I was prepared for when it got on the trailer... I don't care how rough the water may be or however fast you may be going across it, if your vertabraes and spinal cord are still in somewhat operable condition, the hull will be A-OK.. The hulls are tougher than the passengers.. The Superboat Guy's are foolishly enjoying the calm before the storm...

 

[GotMyAlly]

I agree with the above. Obviously the progressions are gonna ride better than the current a-boats because they are 4 foot longer. Nobody can speak for how the new hulls will ride, but Darris's quality is top notch. You'll hurt yourself before you'll hurt an Allison hull.

 

[whipper]

Dido!:mrgreen: Thats a shorter post!

 

[fishnfireman]

It is AMAZING how much more big water this 21 can take than the 2003 could. Of course we all know longer is better !!!!!!!!!!!
So I can only imagine what the bigger hull will be like.

I have had both the 20 and the 21 completly out of the water more times than I care to count.
What amazed me is how good they land.. Just like a good dirt bike..you get a little out of shape and GAS IT..It will land nose up everytime. Now that's not to say once you reach the point that exceeds the boats span length you are not gonna stuff some waves. Been there done that-don't care to do it anymore.. Once again longer and deeper is better !!!!!!!!

So far the only boat damage I have incurred is the pink caulk they put between the top cap and the hull..Sometimes after a long pounding run there will be a few pieces knocked loose.
I have had eletronics,rods and other things ripped off the deck of the 2003 from stuffing a wave.

I would have to say these hulls are darn near indestructable !!!

 

[john4utvols]

I know at the last rally Todd said they were using my old SS top for testing, He said they streched it out to 24'. So I know the test boat is yellow, and shouldn't be hard to spot if its on the river being tested.

 

[RBT]

I cannot help myself but to post a comment.

While I agree that Allison’s are well built, they are no where near the league of a Progression. As someone with a little experience with lamination, and finite element analysis, the structure of a progression is somewhere in terms of 8 times stronger than the Grandsport. Add that the comment made above about the offshores being composite...... true, but I think you are missing the meaning. Composite can include wood....... and the best boats in the world are built with WOOD... a la Skater.
No offence but Allisons are a PRODUCTION BOAT, nothing custom, nothing exotic. Well built yes, but not deserving to be put on the construction pedestal being implied here, design absolutely...

BTW...in my Garage.... a GS

RT

 

[ziemer]

Just a quick little story.

I have recently been looking for a larger boat to run in the salt (24' +/- range) and I have always heard great things about the Progressions. However, I recently came across a Progression 24' LD I/O, that was a 95. I had emailed Progression about the boat because it is pictured in their online brochure for the 24's and Kevin responded saying they last sold the boat in 2002 and when it left it was mint. The current owner claimed the boat was virtually unused this past year and I believe the total hours on the hull were around 300 (at least by the hour meter)

I had someone look at the boat for me (the boat was over 1000 miles from me) and before he looked at the boat I explained to him that I was mainly concerned with the mechanicals, i.e. engine, drive, etc. and wasn't as concerned about the integrety of the hull being that it was a Progression.

Unfortunately, everything on the boat appeared to be sound except for a small portion of the hull to either side of the cabin bulkhead. It was more than stress cracks since it had movement.

Not looking to bash the quality of the Progression, I just find it hard to believe that they claim "No Hull failure's ever" and I found the only one that appeared to have a failure. I was definitely disappointed. :cry:

Maybe it was beat to sh!t, but it would seem the rest of the boat would have followed suit which it didn't.

 

[K.Kiser]

I cannot help myself but to post a comment.

While I agree that Allison

 

[Chad Phillips]

the new allison "plug" is yellow and gray...kinda hard not to miss. haven't seen it since August though.

 

[whipper]

Rt sure composits can mean all types of material a la wood. One of my favorite hulls other than Allisons are as you said Skater and also Cougar CUSTOM boats,who also use solid fur laminate stringers heavly glassed in place. Allisons are a production craft not a custom craft sure but they are still all hand made like all customs. This means to me like a Cougar there is a heart and sole gone into making them over chop machine and robotics. I would find it very hard to believe that a Progressions hull would be 8 times stonger than an Allisons. Its not apples to apples as most Allisons are 20.3 LOA compared to 24ft for a Progression the larger hull would need more substance to make the extra length ridged but I think were not comparing the smaller Allisons to a Progression anyway.What we were baseing our coments on was the speculation given the limmited numbers we have on the new 24ft Allison and how it may stack up against a Progression,Sleekcraft,Activator and the likes. Given the new A boats wieght of 3000lbs boat,motor and two passengers there is a much beefier hull happening hear than the standard lengths. Some were in the 2200lb range bare hull 2600 riged 2x200 for passengers = 3000lbs. The fact that 88 with a 225 was achieved also says that the design of this hull is a real good design. Darris could take his hands of the wheel at that speed. So as far as strength goes we just dont know yet but time will tell. As for the 20 footers though they are light,fast and tough as you already know. There are not to many other 20ft boats as light as an Allison as structuraly stong as an Allison. Not just the layup but the way there put together makes them strong also shape,hight,strong in the right places. I think Progressions are awsome boats I like a lot of boats. But this is the Allison board and Im rooting for Allison when a 24 Progression,24 Allison line up heck if they all had single 280s on them lets throw in a 24 Skater just for kicks with just one moter on there should be a good race and im sure the Allison wont sink after it smokes them.:mrgreen: Time will tell, James

 

[catfish123]

Great post James..........I don't believe anyone could have said this better than you did. Bob

 

[RedAllison]

What a LOAD OF CRAP this topic turned into!!! ::<>< If ANYONE thinks someone builds a stronger hull than Allison, then go ahead and buy it. The only boats I can think of that are stronger than Alli's have rivets, armor plating and .50cals on the bow. (LOL and I can assure you they aren't as fast as the Alli!)

As for all this clamor about plywood and wood strength, it's STILL decaying plant matter and it WILL eventually rot!!! That's just a simple, biological fact. If plywood is so damned good then why doesn't NASA or Boeing use it??? <<%%>>

>>:<<
RA

 

[TN XB-21]

RA,

Can you be a little more specific about how you feel:mrgreen: !!!

 

[JR]

When you get into discussions of strength, there are a lot more parameters to consider than just thickness. There are shear, modulus, tensile and compressive strengths. A thicker hull with low modulus will crack instead of bending and returning. The hull has to shed stress or deflect with a high modulus or it will relieve the stress by CRACKING.
A thin hull with high modulus can be much stronger/durable than a thick hull.
JR

 

[whipper]

ya thats what I was trying to say.:mrgreen: James

 

[RBT]

I don't want to xxxx in anyones corn flakes but I feel that someone needs to shake up the cult a little.
------- NOTE: THERE IS A ALLISON IN MY GARAGE!

First, Modern composites need to be roughly 4 times as thick as balsa to have the same stiffness, and are less than 30% of the shear strength. So no, modern composites are not as good as balsa. BUT, balsa is hardest to work with, and when not installed correctly WILL rot. Darris is a very smart man, and for what he needs balsa is overkill, and much more labor intensive.
Second, when you double the thickness of a core you increase it's stiffness buy it's square, assuming your using the same material. Allison uses 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch....... foam. Progression, uses vacuum bagged balsa.... 3/8 and 5/8. So yes...... somewhere around 8 times as stiff.
Third, Allison gets a lot of it's strength from it's shape, no constant flat surfaces.... lots of curves.
Fourth, Allisons are in land boats, if you attempted to run with a Progression in it's element, one or a combination of things will happen. And none are in your favor..... that being said.... put a Progression in Allison territory, and the tides turn.

It is what it is.......

RT

 

[froggy]

Hey RBT,

How come the F18 uses Klegecell composite and not balsa composite?

froggy