New allison model

[RBT]

Water is more dense than concrete........ air isn't even in the same game. Ever see what happens when an F18 meets concrete?.... or water? Ask as stupid question.....

Kledgecel is LIGHT, but you can crush it between your fingers. It is very suited to makeing a stiff composite structure.... specially with carbon, as the carbon makes it 3x as stiff as a comparable weight glass . But, it sure will not like blunt impact!. It will shatter like a wine glass....but planes don't have that issue..... unless the meet the ground or water and then it is a moot point.

Bottom line, do your homework........ balsa is better.
So is stichmat, yet Allison uses woven....... same reason. It works well, but it sure isn't the best.

RT

 

[Myron]

the only thing I will add to this is I have seen Kiedgecel witha density so hard you could hit it witha ball peen hammer and not leave a mark on it

 

[Yellowallison]

Its very obivous from some folks opinion they have never taking on the task of tearing apart ALLISON's to the skin layer and rebuilding or in a fiberglas shop most everyday or thier opinions would be slightly different :relax:

 

[Scott Gilmore]

No problem, RT finds a way to call Allisons inferior EVERY chance he can . He's been doing it for years & will continue to do so !! Scott

 

[RedAllison]

I mean this with all due respect, if you love balsa THAT much then Bill Hill builds the boat for you!!!

:beer:
RA

 

[JR]

I had a balsa hull in my first hydrostream that cracked, seperated, and a chunk fell out of it alowing it to sink. The only thing that kept it afloat was sheer horsepower until I could beach it. I never pounded that hull half as much as I have my Allison's.

JR

 

[RedAllison]

lmao, and JR isn't hard on hulls. He BRUTALIZES them!!! >>:<<

That comes from a man who could splinter an anvil,
RA

 

[Kevin from FL]

JR should be hired by Allison for a test bed for their boats, what they put them through is no way close to JR's normal use in an Allison

I have no doubt that this will be one great/tough boat when Darris finishes it. The water it can handle will depend on what Darris is designing it for so to me, comparisons mean nothing at this point.

I do know this, when he is done with it, it will be bad to the bone and will be more economical on gas than any boat in that length produced by any manufacturer and will do it with less horsepower.

Everyone here has a right to the opinion they have and shouldn't be chastised because it doesn't meet the opinion you have.

 

[2fast4mom]

And that's a fact. Just my opinion; should be yours.

 

[whipper]

Oh no Kevin there going to use bone in there hulls now! I just hope they dont use decaying plant matter.Because since were a cult at least if the hulls fell apart we could use the bones to put threw our noses while chanting my boats faster than your Progression will ever be.:mrgreen: Buy the way the new trend in offshore Customs is full composite no wood hulls. If thats not what your building then your behind the times. Just look at the new 28 Howard Bullet 110mph with a single inboard the fastest v bottom sterndrive ever tested! No wood. There calling it revelutionizing and the way all boats should be made. I cant help that some people love tree hugger boats but in a world thats loosing so many trees it makes sence to help do our part and support the builders that make boats that wont rot out ever. Save The Planet Buy An Allison. James

 

[K.Kiser]

I do think that wood gets a bad rap from idiot manufacturers, and Balsa can be supa bad premium core when done right... Bill Hill builds a fine hull with it as do some others... I've taken some teeth jarring, kidney stone powdering high speed rides over rough water in Our Allison's that made Me almost need to lay on the pavement when I got back to the ramp because My spine felt a weee bit out of adjustment.. I still haven't found a gel crack in a structural area.. I'm not sure that My body is capable of surviving the ride that it would take to break one, as far as rough water is concerned... I've taken some pretty slamming rides in Bullets also, haven't hurt one but the transom's will show some gel cracks given some time... That doesn't necessarily mean anything, and that doesn't really involve Balsa but rather the Ply in the transom, possibly gel coat type or general hull geometry and the radiuses involved... I did hear of one Bullet cracking the pad, but I don't know the circumstances.. I guess I'll end this with saying that it mostly depends on craftsmanship and experiance with the task, but I have no reservations on the strength of either method if the workmanship and material knowledge are top notch..I just prefer whatever Allison does with their hulls because I haven't seen a failure yet that wasn't crash related.. RBT, are you sure that Allison doesn't use stitch, I could have sworn that I've saw some on the inner hull of My old Drag..? Looked as if it was laminated in before the stringers were layed..

 

[Lotus 50]

There is wood in my SS2000, the dashboard is wood.

As for wood core, I think the debate should be over longevity, not strength. The strength comes from the "fiberglass" on each side of the core, not from the core material. The core must have enough compressive strength so that it doesn't crush. The core doesn't need tensile strength at all.

Certainly a good boat can be built with or without wood. I don't know much about the SOB boats (Progression), but my expectation is that they would be stronger and heavier than an Allison. Sooner or later you have to add material to achieve strength, and offshore use requires strength.

 

[K.Kiser]

Lotus, I believe that to be very important and mostly true.. In alot of cases the wood and/or different woods and materials offer different strengths.. Balsa has the criss crossing voids that fill up with resin to form a grid like structure, in addition to the porosity of the Balsa offering a great mechanical bond and again in addition to the resin having bonding access to 5 sides of each Balsa block make for a bunch of contact area for the resin... Synthetic materials are also offered in the same arrangement as the sheets of Balsa also... Some of the older Balsa cored hulls did fail because of disrespect to the buyer by the bulider, namely the absolute junk tubs known as Hydrostreams... No way in hell I'd trust My life at high speed in one of those crap tubs..

 

[froggy]

Given water is denser than air, but stresses increase at the square of velocity and an F18 certainly weighs more than a boat. Now at Mach 2+ (1600+ mph) and, say, 12 G's do you really believe a 100 MPH boat will have more stress?

froggy

 

[Lotus 50]

Hydrostreams. Most of these are very old boats now. And they were mass produced for 200 HP motors without the sort of setback people use now. Good boats for the money at the time, but most are pretty old now. The new ones in Canada are built very well.

 

[JR]

I bought my first 16'7" Hydrostream/V-6 OMC in '76, since the only way I could go faster at the time, with passengers, was in a supercharged big-block V drive. The hull/motor were both first year models [the engine's were being provided to racers in '75]. My best friend got killed racing one [same engine/hull] in '75.

My second HS was a '85 17' with a V-6 OMC, which I traded in on my new Allison. My Brother still has two HSs, a 15' OMC V-4 and an 18' V-6 that still run well.

I have sank almost every boat I have ever owned except my Allison [hopefully it will remain on top].

Imbedded structural wood boats are OK for a couple of years but then you have to use caution. There is wood in the dash and bucket seat bases to the Allisons. I have had to rebuild my seats/bases due to bat-turns.

My Oldest Brother raced his new Ron Jones Inboard Hydro on the National Circuit [2 years between tours flying S&R in V.N.] and It was taken back to Ron Jones's shop and the internal chines/stringers were X-rayed after each race [looking for breakage].

JR

 

[RBT]

Scott...... there is an GS in my garage..........

Some of the free thinkers above that aren't 100% brainwashed have it correct.

Another few points, foam turns to dust over time, balsa rots.......... both have to be installed correctly. Yes, you can get foam that you can strike with a hammer... or try and crush in a vise.... but it is heavier than balsa. That defeats the purpose.
The boat vs plane argument is dumb, air and water do not have anything in common, nor can you compare there structures.

RT

 

[msethsmile]

I always thought Allison, Progression et al went to Home Depot and bought off the rack. Dem pine 2x4s are hard. I had one cracked over my head once, and believe me, it was hard. Fortunately, there was no damage to me.

 

[RedAllison]

Well RBT I guess you can call me dumb all you want. (-(

Go tell Darris how STUPID he is for adopting alot of airplane technology into his boats over the years...

We need a smiley for "Go $%*^ yourself"??? :mrgreen:
RA

 

[whipper]

RT, haveing good knowledge of structural integrity and composite bonding makups with differant materials is fantastic for you to know. Personaly I like a lot of diff craft as mentioned before, I just like the speed for the buck Allison offers as Im sure is the case for most of us. The cult thing is what threw me off and if I offended anyone with my posts I apoligize. The fact that you own a GS over options of buying other boats you could have purchased says to me you must like her or you would have bought a nother boat. Any one purchasing a new boat has differant things there looking for in a craft. Some like the fact that Allisons are fast,as you mentioned some are going off shore in the chuck an require a more heavy duty layup and longer hull to lunch off the rollers. For most of us who are inland or protected water boaters I think the fact that Allisons have no wood was a big selling feature. As with my self I have built and lived on comercial fishing vessals made of wood and wood over glass hulls over the years,I have had trucks that rusted out and so on. Now a days I want trucks that wont rust out and boats that wont rot lower maintanance stuff. Allisons are just fine for there intended purpose. I believe that the new 24 will be just fine for her intended purpose also as Kevin says what ever that will be only a few know at this time. Structuraly I have know idea other than real world reports and personal experiance what to me is strong enough. I have learned a little more from what this thread has brought up about the differant properties of wood vs no wood in a general way. That I believe is what this site is all about. A place were we all can learn a little or a lot of something.We all seem to be from differant back grounds and have our own way of looking at something which to me is a valuble resourse. Your knowledge of composites as well some of the other Allison owners knowledge of composites is great info to share. The compulation of data found on this site that is craft spacific is like know other manufactures site on the net. That is awsome. Later RT, James